Body by Dodge. Power by Jag?

[heviarti]

So, this local fellow has a '71 crew that bears a striking resemblance to Beetlejuice with all the moss growing on it... down side? no motor or trans.

I have a spare 318 and 727, but I'm sick of V8s, 'cause the darn things never run worth a hoot.

So there's this guy with a 5.3 liter jaguar 12... I'm sure there's a way to either find a way to run the injector system and ignition, or a way to replace them. Any pages I find online in relation to manual transmissions on the 12 suggest some rather dinky transmissions in excess of four speed, most cased in aluminum. Pluech!
If I do it it looks like I'm stuck with a GM TH400, or seeking out a 727 adapter of some kind. Anyone else considered the possibility of a V12 jag in a swepty? I've been tempted once or twice to replace my 225 with the '88 jag 219 DOHC out of the XJ6.... but I love my power wagon too much to change it. Now this crew on the other hand? Very tempty. If I could figure out a way to cob the 727 on, I could go cable shift and install the shifter dash... Anyway, anyone here have any ideas?

[Rodger]

Sir

If you try to put the Jag Six into your truck, let me know so that
we can invest in the stock of verious head ache medicines
( the head aches will start when you find out the needed
maintenace on your Jag Engine ).

If you do follow through. let us know where you are so that one
of us may start a small but profit-able local to you business
called "Metric Motor's".

The guy across the street has an 87 Jag that has not moved
in the last seven years. Do you want his number so that you
may talk about the complete car ( his wife would be the one
to speak with )???


Rodger & Gabby
COS

[runcharger]

If you can't get a Dodge V8 to run correctly please do not try to get an english V12 running.Dodge V8's run absolutely great. English engines not so hot, especially with a complicated V12, Jaguars are not known for brute reliability, especially anywhere near Dodge dependability.

Sheldon

[heviarti]

No, not Dodge V8s... any V8. I have yet to see a V8 that runs worth a darn. I've got a 1964 Cadillac... Runs, just not well. I've got a '64 D200 with the poly... doesn't run well. never has. My friend Jerry with the 400 smallblock? it doesn't run worrh a sh..... well, you get the idea. Of the probably 100 different pet V8s people I've known have had, I can't think of a one that was a good runner or reliable for more than five minutes. Now my slant 6? always ready to go, runs like a top. The 300 in my ford? great, except for the electric choke which is going away and being replaced by a manual. The six in my BMW? like a Swiss watch. My great uncle's 300 six? the truck is falling apart around it, and it runs smooth and reliable. the '60 Dodge I bought my mother? I don't think I've ever seen an engine so tired, but that little 230 flathead has yet to fail to start, fail to hit on all six, fail to idle, or fail to sling that pickup down the road.

I'm just not all that impressed with the V8 as an engine. Jag's reliability can be primarily traced to electrical issues. See also 'Lucas: Prince of Darkness', and in the case of the 12, they do occasionally lose a Welch plug in the head. Then they get sold because they apparently have a 'blown head gasket', never mind either job flat rates at 40 hours, and you're lucky to finish it in twice that.

Injection on the 12 is, thankfully, Bosch. Other than ZF and Getrag's lame gearboxes I can't think of a major German maker who makes things that are comprised primarily of dookie. The English? they make both fine hand tools and fine engines, you just have to worry about the support systems.

I've seen that same 219 run (and stay running) with a nickel size hole in the number six piston... even to the point that it was leaving a trail behind it like a two-stroke. I even saw the owner pour two quarts of 80/90 in it one day because that's all he had for oil where he was.

305 with the same issue? Fell on it's face. Went for scrap.

[66patrick]

Jeez, if a 318 is so tough to get running right, what makes ya think that Jag engine is going to be remotely easier??? Anyone I know with a nice Jag that gets tired of paying the Jaguar mechanic $150/hr, installs either a 400 or 440 Mopar or a 350 or 400 Chevy engine in it - either way, THAT is far more dependable than that Jag.

Actually, the Jag engine is quite a good engine, especially the 3.0L Six. It's the Lucas electrics (aka Prince of Darkness) that make a Jaguar unreliable.

[fosh69]

Pay no attention to the purists' banter... go for it! And post lots of pics and videos, because Dodge is different and different is good and too many of the same different is, well, not so different. Just don't scrap that ol' mopar V8 tho, cuz this site is full of folks that will take it off your hands... albeit for free.

[Russ]

I vote this as the wierdest post yet. "V8's never run worth a hoot so I'm putting a Jaguar engine in instead?"

Not discourageing you here at all, In fact I think it would be a very interesting swap. Paint and polish the Jag engine and work out the electrical and fuel delivery problems and you will have a show stopper. You would attract a crowd at a show when you opened the hood. A good set of pipes and it would sound wild, too. The part I don't get is why you think V8 engines dont run well.

Russ

[Hobcobble]

Of the probably 100 different pet V8s people I've known have had, I can't think of a one that was a good runner or reliable for more than five minutes.

Well..... no sense in your friend's wasting money on lottery tickets if they're that
unfortunate. This is the most extreme case of bad V8's I've ever come across.
Maybe a Mazda rotary engine is in your future... ..... Zoom Zoom!
John

[heviarti]

As to fuel and ignition, maybe an MSD trigger wheel job and some webers.... I'm really not a proponent of electronic anything. maybe the 12 might make a bit of power...

As yet the only thing that seems to do that is the 300. Of course I installed a weber, an MSD, Harland Sharp roller rockers, and a Mallory Promaster coil. I think I'm going to have to build a new bottom end for it. I'd do most of that to my 225, unfortunately I don't think my Sun tach would work with the MSD, and other than the sucky, stick-prone needle valve I rather like my carb.

So far only two engines that weren't inline sixes have impressed me: any John Deere two cylinder, and the little Briggs on my Western Auto Wizard mower. I don't think I've ever seen anything stand up to what that poor little Briggs has... not even another Briggs.

Rotary? Not in an automobile, thank you. Only rotary I ever care to own is a Sachs Dolmar KMS4.

So, nobody has any ideas about fitting a 727 in place of the TH400?

In the end, $200 for the V12, and $250 for the crewcab.... I don't think it's much of a losing proposition.

[RussRoth]

Of the probably 100 different pet V8s people I've known have had, I can't think of a one that was a good runner or reliable for more than five minutes.

Well..... no sense in your friend's wasting money on lottery tickets if they're that
unfortunate. This is the most extreme case of bad V8's I've ever come across.
Maybe a Mazda rotary engine is in your future... ..... Zoom Zoom!
John

Geez. Talk about walking around with a black cloud over your head. I've had my share of V8's and only had a couple that didn't always perform as expected, up to and including an 80,000 + mile 383 that I hit 7,200 RPM with a couple times. Not that it was very smart, just a dumb kid showing off. The couple V8's that did cause a bit of grief were both Chevvy's but they were pretty high mileage older rigs.

[nfury8]

An unreliable Mopar V8?? Only if it was damaged or abused.

As for the transmission. Look at the JW Ultrabell. I believe they have adapters
to fit 727s behind bow ties. The bell has to be cut off and replaced.

[wally426ci]

I've never met someone who had so many brands of equipment.

I also can't see why so many people run V8's if they run so terrible. Maybe your timing gears are mis-aligned or something.....

[PatS]

My brother in law has a beautiful Jag XJ12. Problem was he couldn't drive it because it wouldn't stay running long enough to go through a tank of gas. OH and the reason they are never winter driven is because they won't start in winter.

After a few weekends and a kit from the US, there is a healthy and reliable Corvette V8/700R4 in the Jag now and it gets the doors driven off it.

The V12??

Sitting in his garage because he can't even GIVE it away as a boat anchor.

[heviarti]

The 12 doesn't like cold starts because of a combination of the ignition advance and the manifold. I've been told they like ten or twelve degrees of advance for starting, and there's a big vacuum mess to make that happen. Also, the stock intake is not quite right. In building it to cram under a sports car hood it was built in such a way it doesn't draw mixture well. I think that It'll be a big enough pain to make the injection work that I might have to do like the guy who put one in a miata, and just put six webers on it. SUs are getting too expensive these days. or I could be an @#% and put two barrel Marvel Schebler side drafts in in place of the webers... prolly cheaper.

And my Dodge with the 8? I love the truck, but not the motor. I bought it because it was a pushbutton, and an oddity. It's low miles, as it started life as a motorhome, and ended up as a flatbed. the hydravac went out, and they parked it. It was recommissioned for a while, some tweaker worked on the brakes, fouled them up and it got parked again. I paid $600 for it, fixed the brakes, and other than the fact it doesn't run worth a darn and makes a godawful mournful wail above about 35, it does OK. (it's kind of like my retarded cat, Java: good cat with a nice disposition, she's just 'tarded) It just has an eight. Doesn't really make much power. out on the highway in the 55 zone when I get a Geo load of Hispanic Americans wanting to pass at 60, the poly just ain't got no push, I tromp on it and it sits there like a Holstein cow trying to decide which bale of hay to eat, it idles awfully... It does always run however. I can give it that.

[Sterno]

Sounds like a neat and kinda different project. Apart from the potential headaches mentioned by others, I should think bolting a 727 to a Jag V12 should be a simple matter of having a bellhousing adapter machined, and an adapter for the flexplate only concern being the balancing of the engine. If the Jag's internally balanced, you're laughing.

The bell adapter should have a mount for your starter, seeing that you'll be missing the mounts that would be on a Mopar block.

[reavilh]

Many years ago, I helped my Dad stuff (literally) a 4-53 Detroit diesel along with an Allison 5 speed tranny in a 65 Dodge 3/4 ton 2WD. 1st job was beefing up the front springs by almost doubling the amount of leaves. We had to cut a "scoop" in the hood to clear the top of the motor. Even put air over hydraulic brakes and air horns on it. Top speed ended up just over 100 MPH, and it was a hoot to drive. The only problem was it would get stuck on wet grass, as all the weight was up front. He sold it after driving it 10 years. I wish I had this one back. It's still running around.

His next project was putting a Mercedes 220D diesel in a 61 International Scout. With the help of a homemade adapter, the motor was hooked to the Scout tranny, and thus retained the 4WD. Not very fast (50MPH max), but it sure got some stares.

His last deisel project was putting a 3-53 Detroit in a 73 Chevy 4WD PU, and hooking it to the 400 auto tranny. He drove this truck from here to CA a couple of times.

[heviarti]

My Great Uncle has a 1979 chevy ambulance that my other Great Uncle kep' blowing 454s out of before he died. (another V8)
Russ decided to circumvent Chuck's issues and install

-are you ready for this?-

A John Deere 329 diesel with turbo and late injectors in front of a cast iron NP540. It took six inches of body lift to barely clear inside the hood. No room for a fan, that's mounted in front of the radiator.... but, it came out of an experimental Freeman haystacker meant to sling ten ton around and still get you a speeding ticket; we figure loaded it'll weigh three ton.

I'd seriously consider installing a 329 in a swepty, but the engine compartment is nowhere near long enough. I'd have to install the 276, which is a four cylinder. Fours don't make me happy. They make everything sound like a Farmall or Ferguson with a busted muffler.

As to balance, any engine with cylinders in multiples of three should have what they call 'inherent balance' Also, a 12 cylinder engine has power overlap like very few people on this forum have ever experienced. If it's not smooth -glassy smooth- there's a problem.

[MoParaised]

I've got a 383 in my Dart that runs real nice in the 11's, but is kinda lumpy @ idle.
The cost of your project = $1500
Staying with mother MoPar = Priceless

[RussRoth]

Many years ago, I helped my Dad stuff (literally) a 4-53 Detroit diesel along with an Allison 5 speed tranny in a 65 Dodge 3/4 ton 2WD.


His last diesel project was putting a 3-53 Detroit in a 73 Chevy 4WD PU, and hooking it to the 400 auto tranny. He drove this truck from here to CA a couple of times.

And you can still hear???

[soopernaut]

You are not the first to think of putting a Jaguar V12 in a Sweptline. http://sweptline.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... &hilit=v12