Headers,,,,again?

[RH62]

Roger.
I think were all just doing some bench racing here....
If you have some kinda graph showing that manifolds with a single tailpipe muffler makes more power under 3000 rpm i think you can end this discussion now.
its kinda funny how you say someone has to show a graph before they can talk but you show none.
i dont think the muffler design has much to do it is just dual exhaust half the way back.
true single exhaust has a crossover that ties the two pipes together under the motor then runs in a single pipe back to the muffler.
think the muffler you describe would be better then a single inlet muffler because it is dual from the manifolds to to the muffler...
if it had a second outlet i think it would produce even better better results. (this is my opinion only... i have no graph)

[712edf]

In my high school biology class (25 yrs ago) the teacher had a device that you would blow into that measured the capacity of your lungs. Mine was the highest in the class. (.65 liters iirc). Maybe that would give me the ability to blow smoke and join in the fun here.....

[Hobcobble]

In my high school biology class (25 yrs ago) the teacher had a device that you would blow into that measured the capacity of your lungs. Mine was the highest in the class. (.65 liters iirc). Maybe that would give me the ability to blow smoke and join in the fun here.....

Smoke or hot air.... they're both sufficient to chime in with
John

[RH62]

In my high school biology class (25 yrs ago) the teacher had a device that you would blow into that measured the capacity of your lungs. Mine was the highest in the class. (.65 liters iirc). Maybe that would give me the ability to blow smoke and join in the fun here.....

was it single or dual outlet? I bet a dual outlet would be easier to blow thru...
I have no pie charts or graphs to prove it... just a guess!

[712edf]

[shdnobetter]

In my high school biology class (25 yrs ago) the teacher had a device that you would blow into that measured the capacity of your lungs. Mine was the highest in the class. (.65 liters iirc). Maybe that would give me the ability to blow smoke and join in the fun here.....

Hmmm.... Folks, I think we've located the basis for the first-ever human-powered flow bench!
On a less airy (sorry, couldn't pass that one up) note, one heretofore overlooked benefit of a TUNED header is it's design goal to equalize the exhaust flow between cylinders. Rodger, I won't dismiss your muffler, even though it's become apparent that you own a lot of NAPA stock , but even at 1500 rpm an engine will perform better if each cylinder is dealing with the same, or close to the same, pressure drop through the exhaust system.

[MountainMoparRobin]

Roger,
as already mentioned I have not seen anything that shows a single exhaust flow better than headers? I've only read you preaching an adequate stock system fromt the 60's that has been proven times over that it needed improvement. Your idea would be believable if you had a Sweptline truck that could be a living testomony of what you preach, but you own one that you never drive, I'm not sure anyone can say they have heard it run, and you've stated no title and you've owned it for over a year? the title isn't hard to get, I bought the 54 Willys in November and finished the title process in March and that was an extended time, you know in the Metro area we have to do some things not required where you are, so why don't you have the title.
If you expect people to believe in your knowledge put it to use and show us, in the 5 years we've been gettin together no one has ever seen you drive anything but a new car, so your credibility on what your saying is in question, for when you don't actually have interaction with these vehicles, your only going on book experiance, which is nothing like real experiance, its only theory, and until you actually do it then you have no actual fact to go on.
I challenge you to finish the easy process of title for you 66, and I'll have my 68 done, you bring yours to the Cruise and when we get to Colorado Motor Sports Park we can see who's theory actually works. Here is the comparison of our 2 trucks
Rogers VS - Robin
1966 VS - 1968
Poly 318 VS - LA318
210 hp VS - 170 hp
NP435 VS - 727
3:91 VS - 3:23
I'll have a Edelbrock Performer intake and 600cfm carb
I think the difference in horsepower will be made up with the fact my flow will be at least 2x better than yours, so we can have a "PULL OFF" hook to the same weight and see who's truck can pull (from idle no throttle) the most weight, you believe in the granny low of the 435, and I believe the multiplication of torque provided by automatic will be enough to out pull your truck
ARE YOU WILLING TO PUT YOUR TALK TO THE TEST?

[712edf]

Charts ........

HOOK 'EM UP

[Hobcobble]

For the love of Pete! ..... if you want headers.... get headers.
If you want cast iron manifolds... then, by all means, put them
on! Without quantifiable/verifiable stats from a dyno style test being
offered.... it cooks down to personal preference. As far as
hooking bumpers.... with the differences between the trucks, a
true apples to apples test isn't possible. If, by chance, you DO
hook 'em up.... PLEASE get it on video for all of us to enjoy.
John

My money is on that Poly with the 6.68 granny. I'll bet Rodger has
one or two "Five Grand Launches" left in him

[big66440]

Theres always two sides of the story,,,the never ending question to run headers or manifolds is still alive, sorry roger but the thought of running a Y pipe setup on anything that does not have to be smogged is well,,,prehistoric to me,an H pipe set up with even those turbo type mufflers,(manifolds or headers) by theory alone would flow MUCH better than a Y,now lets talk X pipe(manifolds or headers,again) with the same mufflers would be the absolute best, I dont mind running manifolds on my stuff but I just know unless youre using the cleverly designed expensive 340 hi performance manifolds theres much more power to be uncorked with headers when done the right way, I want to build my truck and ditch what the factory left out to try and save a few pennies,,,thats just my personal preference.

[Rodger]

Enrique

Here is the original post from myself to you. I am sure that I have
never endorsed the "y" pipe as you just mentioned.

What I do say to all is to get the best bang for the buck. The other
part from me is to only say what is a win-win power enhancement,
and to do this in a "cost to HP" manner that counts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Since you are learning from more than one source that installing
after market header's is not as easy as the ones who have them
are claiming and the header's start working at about 3,000 RPM's
which puts you in the Radar Gun of the CHP, why not use a proven
Power Enhancement for your exhaust."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If you think I am "bench racing" please contact a few chassis dyno
shops and speak with them what I have mentioned to do.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

[Rodger]

To All

In not watching what I was going to do, I clicked on the wrong
bar.

Here is a "y" pipe ( such as the truck in question came with )
and a dual in-let muffler such as the V10's, and the best
performing Durango's, Dakota's or Ram's with the 5.9L
engine.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

[MountainMoparRobin]

if I remember correctly years ago Roger and Etsweptster posted the X system out flowed the Y setup, good to see that your not going to plug the 440 up with restricted exhaust flow I rund headers on mine and with the ministarter you can actually change out the starter without any interference from the headers, I also run duals, true duals with 30" Walker Blue Tubes, breathe baby breathe,
Hobblecobble I have every cruise on tape, one is posted on facebook, if Roger decides to drive a Sweptline, I'll record history in the making

[RH62]

If you think I am "bench racing" please contact a few chassis dyno
shops and speak with them what I have mentioned to do.

Rodger
If you posted your graph (as you directed others to do before talking) i would not have to.
I wonder why it is that replacing the exhaust/muffler on any modern truck is always the first performance upgrade anyone makes.
They must not have talked to your chassis dyno friends.

[Rodger]

Rich

My first request was to post a graph for idle to 3,000 RPM's
to support what another was saying about how good the
after market headers are. Since there is no support from
the header people on something that is not able to be shown, the
person repeated the same sales info they had said before
( which is 3,000 RPM data to Red Line ). This is about the
same time you repeated an like statement on the subject.

The unsaid part of the after market header part is why advertise
an item that gets the driver no advantage below 3,000 RPM's.
The ad write-up may say from 1,800 or whatever, but their
graph only shows from 3,000 RPM's to red line.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You just said the first item that a new truck owner does is
remove the factorys exhaust and switch to an after market.

Most buyers to not purchase the best of the best when new
since the Performance Package is more money than most
are willing or able to spend ( the insurance factor on a known
perforance package hits the wallet hard ). They get a vehicle
with an power train that is OK for them. From there the next
stop is a place that will say yes to what they are asking.
Most people following this sales pitch have never met a dyno
shop person. The dyno shop sells performance, not retail
parts.

Chassis dyno reports on how the muffler and pipe diameter
used has effected the idle to 3,000 RPM's of an engine,
but never the header part.

I am also asking for a "show me" on the headers, but none
of the reader's on this site are able to find the same asked
for data either. Until that time I will continue on how to
enhance your vehicle with a known item that does show
a power improvement. I am just a regular person so if
I spend my money, it better be for something that helps.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

[MountainMoparRobin]

Roger you make me chuckle, headers don't just mysteriuosly start workin at 3000 RPM, and the torque that the long tubes help the engine better than the stock manifold at any RPM. Think about it, when you need the power, and torque, when would that be? when you sittin in the parking lot idling your engine while talking? no it would be when you use it, whether you be on the highway or towing, daily driving your not in demand for the performance but when you are out on the county road, highway, etc. and its a 2 lane and you need to get around a vehicle fast and you punch it, what do you want, for the engine to stumble, or do you want it to go? when (which many aren't going to do) your towing and your on the highway with road speed of 75 mph, do you at least want to be able to get up to 55 mph, or do you want to get a ticket for impeding traffic? Once again I strongly recomend you actually drive a Sweptline, after you've been driving one I think you'll get a better idea, I can see since you've never actually driven a Sweptline that all you have to go on is what your reading, what you read and the reality isn't always the same.

[soopernaut]

http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/ ... 1111284973

http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/ ... =-36660752

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/tech ... tures.html

[Hobcobble]

John

[Jeremiah]

In my experience exhaust headers always help low and mid-range power. They are absolutely a necessity for top end power. IMHO the only reasons NOT to run headers is:

a) If you live in the salt belt, near the ocean, or your truck is stored in a rust prone climate.

b) If you have to pass emissions and cannot find 50-state headers.

c) If you really hate modifying new parts to make them work.

That said, MoPat hooked me up with a set of smallblock LA headers that fit awesome in my 65 W100. It would be absurd to run restrictive exhaust manifolds on my 408 stroker motor.

Are we talking small or big block here?

All things considered, every engine is different and will respond differently to the parts that are thrown at it. I've had combo's that ran way better than they should have and combo's that did not meet my satisfaction (usually trying to accomplish the ability to combine pump gas and big power without big cubes or a roller cam). To truly see someone would have to do back to back tests on the same motor, on the same day, with the same dyno. Even that would only prove something for that engine, in that condition, with that cam, etc, etc, etc. If your stock motor has 100k on it most likely the valves have rounded edges and the guides are shot along with the ring tension taking a permanent vacation. Headers or not, it won't move at low speeds due to lack of dynamic compression.
'

[MountainMoparRobin]

Soopernaut, I rest my case, proven, on the dyno, headers add horsepower and torque , regardless of the enginge RPM's, by almost exactly what I said ACROSS THE COMPLETE RANGE ! and thats not to say that everyone needs headers but its a simple bolt on for more power and torque!