The beginning of my frame swap

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BigJ
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The beginning of my frame swap

Post by BigJ »

Here is the truck that I brought home to get the frame to put under my '68. I will be keeping the frame and all the power brake, steering, and all the IFS stuff. If you see something you want on it, like the grill or some trim,or badges just let me know, and we'll work something out. I know some of ya'll have or are restoring some of these trucks. It's a '76 model.
Thanks to Cowboy and Bigcountry for helping me get it home. Oh yeah, the guy I bought it from was the one and only George Jones, LOL. If you look in the pics from Bigcountry, you'll see him. He's the one in the green shirt and glasses. pretty cool guy.

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slick
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Post by slick »

I can see it now!!!
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1963 Crewcab Cummins
1961 Dodge D100
1964 Dodge Polara

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Post by cowboy »

This part's truck was kinda a pain the Ya , the rear end was locked up , but a little hard work & good guy;s to work with the truck was delivered :Thumbsup
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Cageman
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Post by Cageman »

Are you using the whole frame or are you stubbing it? The last one I did I stubbed under the cab floor, it was easy. The frame was the same width.
Isnt the frame under the box an issue if you swap the whole frame?
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slick
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Post by slick »

I would agree with Cageman...I did the whole frame swap and it's a lot of work..If I were to do it again I would just use the front clip :Thumbsup
1963 Crewcab Cummins
1961 Dodge D100
1964 Dodge Polara

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BigJ
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Post by BigJ »

How hard is it to get it to be all straight and level and make sure everying thing will line up right when welding it back together?

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Post by mopardwh »

Please describe what was so hard about it? And how it might be easier to just use the front half?

If you're just looking to get the IFS, how about cutting off the rivets and BOLTING it to your existing frame?

Oh, I might be interested in the grille and headlights. You've got PM. :Thumbsup
Doug

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Cageman
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Post by Cageman »

I have done it a couple times now, and I did it in a couple hours the second time. The hardest part was getting the cab off by myself.
The framerails are the same width and they fit almost identicle there. I made stands at ride height, chocked the rear wheels good, jacked it up, took the wheels off, made sure the rotors were pointing ahead, took a plumb bob and marked where the center of the wheels were. The stands I made were under the rear cab mounts, so I wouldnt move the trucks rear when I cut the front off, and I made a stand that sat on top of the frame horns by the rad xmember mount, that way all I had to do was clam it to the new stub. I cut it off at so many inches back from my spindle centers on each side, made sure the cut was square, I then brought that ol frame out of the shop and set the new frame in line with the truck, clamped the front frame horn stand on, raised the rear (trans mount end)to the same height as the trucks frame, took the wheels off, and marked the wheel center, then I marked the same distance as where I cut the frame, and it was right behind the trans mount, I planned a head there. I marked the frame, and cut it up. slid the whole deal back to the ol truck frame, clamped it together, and it was perfectly in line when I hung the plumb bob off of the spindle. I measured in an x from the rear cab mounts to the front of each frame horn and it was perfect. I had to use plumb bob marks on the floor, as I had the slant six and tranny still bolted to the front stub, and it was in the way just trying to measure from the cab mount. I made a jig that hooked into each cab mount that I reinserted into the rear mounts, and this made it so easy to mount the old front mounts to the new frame, I had to fab a little bit there, I would say that was the hardest part of the whole deal, making the fornt cab mounts attach to the new front frame. measure the cab mounts to the floor so you get them perfect. I put the cab back on and it bolted up absolutely perfect. I fish plated the frame on both sides also, Definately do that. I only have normal pictures of that project, next time Im back in SD, Ill have to scan them in.
I havent done much to that truck since, I just wanted to get rid of the new stub I had laying there, as it was ugly looking in my driveway, it had the rad, motor trans and that was it, I made a box trailer out of the box, It was a short box, I wont build a short box trailer again, it always wants to flip to the tailgate side, and I dont like that, you have to load it tongue heavy, and they are hard to move by yourself that way. Oh well, it was free, right,
Redoing the box would be way hard, unless you put a body lift in it, but that doesnt look so hot.The way I did this was easy, I didnt have to take the motor out or nothing, the cummins truck I have was a pain, I stubbed it where the frame bends, and the Z bar was in the way, and the distribution block was too, and the motor had to come out, and the trans. I wasnt going to use the ol slant, and four speed, as I wanted the newer slant and 833 overdrive trans.
Either way you do it, good luck and keep us posted with pics, we all learn that way.
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BigJ
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Post by BigJ »

I think I pretty much got the Idea now.


1.."made sure the rotors were pointing ahead, took a plumb bob and marked where the center of the wheels were"

When you did this you marked it on the floor right?

2.."and I made a stand that sat on top of the frame horns by the rad xmember mount, that way all I had to do was clam it to the new stub."

This part kinda confused me a little. Is this to hold the front of it down when you cut it off?


Doug you have a pm.

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Cageman
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Post by Cageman »

no, it is to hold the frame up, at ride height, or level, with out the wheels on, as you need to take the wheels off to hang the plumb bob, to the floor, where you will mark it. Dang it, I wish I had my pictures it would be easy to see then, Im not good at explaining things.
If I didnt explain it right, ask away.

Hmm, the reason I have a stand welded to the frame behind the cut area is to hold it at ride height, then I made a stand that clamped on in the fornt, that could be removed easily, and clamped on the new stub, this was at ride height too, with the wheels on. this way the frame isnt sagging or drooping just being on the stands. I just used square tubing that I welded to the side of each framerail in the back, I used a level across the frame to make sure it was level. I also had jack stands under the rear bumper to make sure it was level back there too. I made sure the frame rails were level in the front when I made the clamp on stand. I then jacked up under the engine cross memeber, took the wheels off, and set it back down, it is now resting on the stands, and the rotors are hanging in the air.

I hope I better described what I meant there.
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BigJ
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Post by BigJ »

Oh, ok, I got ya. I forgot that you had the front wheels off, now it makes more sense. Thanks.

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Post by motomatt383 »

i've seen pics of that swap somewhere in the forum, i think. i was gung ho on doing a diplomat swap, but this is another way of doing it.

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Post by CLIFF »

And its a true truck suspension! Im not hip into the mustang ifs Im not all to sure its strong enough for actual truck type use, Haulin a small car trailer with my race car on it per say!

Running a mildly built 440/4speed and beefing up rear suspension with a dana 60 and heavyduty leaf pack. A front stub swap from a newer style 72-76? would be the ticket for me also.Its a pretty stought looking piece to me. Would be right at home on our trucks.

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Post by OregonDodgeboy »

:thinking I just don't get it. Why would anyone think that cutting the frame is less work than fabbing up some body mounts? Cageman makes it sound easy, but I have my doubts. Besides, he still had to fab up front cab mounts after all that other work. :thinking Might just be my personal lack of experience with fab work that's that involved, I dunno. To me, it's like saying you can build a stock car chassis in three easy steps. :thinking

When I swapped mine, it was in the back lot of a buddies automotive shop. Out in the dirt and gravel. We used this boom lift he had built on the back of his 76 F-250 to lift it enough to roll the chassis out/in. I took the hood off and we triangulated the straps to the core support for the lift. Before I rolled the new one under I ground off the rivets holding the front body mounts on, which was so much better than laying under the truck to do it. :Thumbsup (Later I kicked myself for not doing the rears as well. Oh well, live and learn. :pale )

Once I bolted the core support to the frame, we used jack stands to hold the cab up (IIRC). I carefully measured to be sure the cab was centered on the frame front and rear. and we were good to go. Then I just took the old front cab mount under the truck, and Dad bolted it to the cab floor while I lined it up where it needed to go at the frame end. My buddy brought his welder over and tacked things into place. I had to make some lift blocks for the cab to get it level, but it wasn't hard. I had a chunk of pressure treated 4x4" lumber I used. (I thought I'd replace it later with metal, but I never did. Worked fine. :Thumbsup ) Once everything was verified, my buddy finished the welding of the cab mounts on. Done! :Thumbsup

Then I attacked the steering. I looked (breifly) at reusing the old column, but making the adapter was beyond what I could do at the time. After some careful measuring, it seemed the newer truck's column would work, so I just borrowed the plasma cutter and notched my firewall. Lined up so perfect it was scary! :clap

There's been alot of interest in this as of late. So I guess I'm gonna have to get over to storage and get the picts I need to do my write-up on it. What really sucks is that I really don't have much for build-in-progress picts. And what few I may have I can't find at the moment. I've been slowly getting all my boxes of junk sorted and tossed so I can get my Swepts home. (Need a place to work on 'em once they get here. They are going back into service asap! :Thumbsup )



All this to say, I didn't find it that hard at all. If you plan on a really low truck (like what Slick is building), it's more work. Personally, I think that 12" at the rocker panel with 31" tires on a 2wd is a nice height. In the pict below I was running 235/75r15's and had about 11' rocker height. Handling is amazing! You'll never regret the swap! PM me if ya need to, and good luck! :Thumbsup :dance :clap


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In this pict, I am standing next to the white 66. This was in 1994, only a couple of years after the swap was done. I stand 6' tall, and as you can see, I can easily look over the top of the truck. Low enough for me! :Thumbsup :lol:

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Frame swap Q & A guy :Thumbsup

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Post by MBigDaddyM »

CLIFF wrote:And its a true truck suspension! Im not hip into the mustang ifs Im not all to sure its strong enough for actual truck type use, Haulin a small car trailer with my race car on it per say!

Running a mildly built 440/4speed and beefing up rear suspension with a dana 60 and heavyduty leaf pack. A front stub swap from a newer style 72-76? would be the ticket for me also.Its a pretty stought looking piece to me. Would be right at home on our trucks.
A few years a go I emailed Rick Ehrenberg (tech editor for Mopar Action) and asked if there was a way to upgrade the brakes on my 81 Ram D150, he said he was aware of swap which used the 73 & up C-body components. When ya think about how big those cars were it would stand to reason that that would work for 100 & 150 models.

I can't wait to see how this frame swap turns out, the more of these that are done, the easier it will get for everyone. As for me, I just want a cruiser as opposed to a hauler. -BD
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Post by mopardwh »

OregonDodgeboy wrote::thinking I just don't get it. Why would anyone think that cutting the frame is less work than fabbing up some body mounts?
I agree. It just depends on the circumstances really.

Big J, what are your plans? Low? Slammed? I could see this making the difference if you plan on lowering the body.
Doug

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Post by CLIFF »

[/quote]A few years a go I emailed Rick Ehrenberg (tech editor for Mopar Action) and asked if there was a way to upgrade the brakes on my 81 Ram D150, he said he was aware of swap which used the 73 & up C-body components. When ya think about how big those cars were it would stand to reason that that would work for 100 & 150 models. [/quote]

Yes those c-body cars are gun boats in disguise. I can see those having strong enough stuff for light truck duty.. But im talking about the Mustang IFS in general being to light duty for a halfton truck thats used for towing 5000 lbs. Which is why im more leaning towards a later dodge pickup IFS. What 72-85 I think the years are?

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Post by MBigDaddyM »

CLIFF wrote:Which is why im more leaning towards a later dodge pickup IFS. What 72-85 I think the years are?
It was 72-93. A lot of early and mid 70's trucks still used drum brakes up front. Using everything from the crossmember on down will work, but with some serious fabing and measuring as the crossmember is to wide for the Swepty frame, if you want to use that era frame I'd go with the frameswap or cutting and mating the two frames which is detailed on http://www.sweptline.com.

I myself have not decided on which frame to use my choices are:
68-72 C-body
73 & up B/R-Body
73 & up C-body

If all works out POWWAG and I will be trading labor, he wants to turn a D into a W and needs someone who can do the heavy lifting and I need someone who can measure, draft and then graft one of the above crossmembers onto my 65 D200. -BD
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cutting / welding Dodge truck frames >> BEWARE

Post by frankyb »

I heard that Dodge sweptline truck frames should NOT be cut or welded except for the front and rear 12 inches. This was due to the way the frames were made (heat treated). If you do cut or weld the frame you will weaken considerably the frame and it will not be safe.

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Re: cutting / welding Dodge truck frames >> BEWARE

Post by soopernaut »

frankyb wrote:I heard that Dodge sweptline truck frames should NOT be cut or welded except for the front and rear 12 inches. This was due to the way the frames were made (heat treated). If you do cut or weld the frame you will weaken considerably the frame and it will not be safe.
Well, you are not supposed to cut or weld on any vehicle frame. When there is a need people will still do it. I know someone who shortened a Ramcharger frame for an off roading project. Off roading will really test your frame strength. They strengthened the frame in the areas where they cut it. They weren't concerned about it breaking. I don't know if they ever finished the project so I don't know if they had any issues with it. I've never heard of anyone breaking a frame from normal street use unless it rusted away.

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