Sweptline.ORG

i have been meaning to post this for a few days now, just keep forgetting. man, your grounded from the use of rtv. it took me as long to get all the rtv out of the way, as it did to take the engine apart. LOL!!! put down the tube slowly, and step away LMAO!!!!!!

i used copper coat on everything going back in. didnt make any messes, and i didnt get a single leak from my side of the engine. even at the valve covers.

If you notice it's on the trans pan as well....let me tell you why...somebody at one time posted a question about what to use to seal pans and valve covers...I read it and saw that you had posted something about the spray on copper gasket stuff...I thought, cool something I've never tried before and seems like it would be a little less of a mess...so I used it on the new trans pan, wow this stuff is nice and easy to use...filled the trans took it for a ride....leaked everywhere!!! couldn't get the damn thing to seal at all....had to drain the trans and drop the pan...after that I said never again will I use that crap or listen to Trey

lmfao

funny, i have used copper coat on an entire build up. made a chevy that didnt have an oil leak, anywhere. as hard as that is to believe, its true. im thinking its user error and not the product. maybe one of these days i can give you a copper coat lesson. LOLOL!!! i used it on the valve covers of the 66 when i did the heads, driven it into town 4 or 5 times, with all the blow by, and its still not leaking. also, got the dist to quit leaking as well. the gasket set came with a stamped steel dist gasket, so i figured 2 seals are better then one, so now it has the o-ring, and the flat gasket. it aint blowing oil no more. well, accept out of the breather. LMAO!!!!! ill let you know when i do the complete build up how well the tranny pan seals. it wont have rtv on it, and im betting, no leaks.

I remember the post for I also went out and bought that crap and put it on the intake manifold, had vacuam leaks all the way up and down, couldn't figure out why it wasn't running right, then figured out the vacuam leak, use the red permatex and Wala it was fixed, I'll leave the copper to you Trey, don't like all the extra work re-doing, funny thing when I pulled the intake the copper stull was gone, must have sucked it through the valves and burned in the pistons

I too am a firm believer in using RTV as a "skim coat"
for gaskets.... just a bit on each side and you will
have a great seal. There's also a product called
"Lion Seal" [pretty sure of the name ] that
has the consistency of molasses. It is swabbed onto
the gasket surfaces and creates a nice seal.
John

how hard can it be. you spray it on like paint. wait a few seconds for it to get a bit tacky, then torque things down right. man, you guys kill me. LOL

john, i have used that molasas stuff your talking about, not sure whats its called. but i remember it was real messy. worked like a champ, but i wouldnt use it on anything i wanted to keep pretty.

I'll agree with you on the user error for me....the first time I used it I shook it up real good and then realized after I sprayed it that it didn't start shooting the copper stuff out for a while...I'll give it another shot sometime...

Copper Coat has only two puposes in my book. One is for use on copper head gaskets (which, by the way is what it's original purpose was for). You spray both sides of the head gasket, the head, and the block. If you have freshly machined surfaces it will prevent water and oil seepage. The other use is to hold gaskets in place during assembly. If you let it tac up on both the gasket and the metal surface before assembly, it will keep your oil pan gasket, tranny gasket, etc, in place to start all the bolts. It won't fill in any imperfections in the surfaces like silicone will. Most stock heads have poorly cast valve cover surfaces, so you need your gasket to be thick and plyable.

if you need silicone to fill any imperfections, id buy a different brand of gasket. theres no manufactures that even recommend useing silicone. accept in the corner joints. if you read the directions, no sealer of any kind is recommened. just a dry gasket. if its torqued proper, and the parts are clean and in good shape, then silicone is over kill and sloppy. most leaks in valve covers and oil pans are from bad rails on the pan or cover. usually due to years of over tightening. the thru holes get slightly dimpled, then no matter what you do, unless you slop it full of rtv, you aint gonna get a seal. there hasnt been a used ride yet, that i havent had to re-flatten the valve cover runners or the oil pan runners if i had to remove them for any reason. gasket companies spend millions in R&D and dont recommend the stuff. silicone is a bandage for bad parts or a poor mechanic, if your parts are right, its not needed to use any type of auxillary sealer.

For Sweptster
"Most stock heads have poorly cast valve cover surfaces, so you need your gasket to be thick and plyable."
_________________
That is why I buy. and swear by the polypropylene gaskets.
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For Trey
"if your parts are right, its not needed to use any type of auxillary sealer"
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Every time I have gone to pick up a long block from the rebuilding co. I buy from, there is always 1 guy there that says "throw those those cork end gaskets away and lay down a 1/4" bead of RTV".
I won't do it and have never had an issue just using silicone at the end of cork gaskets. Jim

If you have the heads milled more than 20 thou you have to throw away the end rail gaskets on the intake. If you mill 100 thou you may even have to file down the end rails on the block to get the intake to bolt up! I had a set of big block heads milled 80 for my 383, and I had to take about 1/8 of an inch off of the end rails to get the valley pan gasket to not kink in the corners. My 360 heads are also milled 80, and there is only about an 1/16 inch gap at the end rails.

Just for the record, I only use silicone on the end rails, the corners of the timing cover and oil pan, on the valve cover to stick the gasket to it, and anywhere I don't have a new gasket when I do an emergency repair. As many times as I pull the valve covers to mess with the valvetrain, it's nice to have the gaskets stay firmly attached to the valve cover. I use the thickest mopar performance composite gasket, and I have had the valve covers on and off at least 50 times without any leaks...on the same set of gaskets! I only run aluminum valve covers on all my engines mainly for their sealing superiority. You don't have to worry about over tightening them and they disperse the clamping pressure over a much greater area.

I agree with Trey on this one. You should use sealers very sparingly when building an engine. You don't need them and it makes extra trouble if you have to tear it back down. Also, there's a torque spec for every bolt and nut on an engine. Use a torque wrench and tighten everything to the specified torque, and you'll be surprised at how few leaks you will have. You will over-tighten most every fastener if you don't use a torque wrench.
Here's a tip on 727/904 transmissions that took me a long time to learn. It seems that those pan gaskets were impossible to keep from leaking. The trick is to use no sealer of any kind, just a dry gasket. You must be sure the pan flange is straight and flat. Clean both flanges, put it together, and torque the pan bolts to the correct torque. I got this from a transmission man and been doing it this way ever since.

Russ, you are absolutely right. I couldn't agree with you more! Most leaks are from overtightening cheap gaskets (as well as good gaskets). On engines, a good PCV system will do wonders to cut down on leaks as well. I have never used any kind of sealant on a tranny pan, and never had any problems with pan leakage. I do several tranny services each month at my shop, and this holds true for any automatic transmission.

what initially shyed me away from rtv is a tranny pan. 3 times i installed and pulled the leaky SOB. till grandpa came out, cleaned it real good with a scotch bright wheel, and installed it bone dry. not a single leak in the 4 years i owned the truck after that. and that was a cheap cork gasket. seems the rtv, to me at least, is slippery. as you tightent he bolts, it tends to squish the gasket here and there, and acts like a lubricant to let the gasket slide out of place. granted after it cures, its usually sealed anyway. but the stuff just creats such a sloppy mess. when i have put hours and hours into a motors paint job, the last thing i want to see is a blob of freakin silicone sticking out anywhere. now i too use it on the intake end rails. but i straddle the inside trailing edge with a small bead. as the intake is clamped down, it tends to put any bulge of silicone towards the inside of the lifter valley, rather then out in the open where it can look tacky. plus, with the positive crankcase pressure, its more likly to stay sealed and harder to blow out. rtv has its uses, just not as many as most people seem to think.

Keep doing what your doing. Jim