Too cold to start

mopardwh · Post by **mopardwh** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:16 pm

So my 88 Plymouth does NOT like the cold. It's the same crap every winter. The 318 runs great when it's warm, but when the temp drops it will NOT start. I put a brand new Road Demon 650 on it when I got it (a few years ago), but it has an electric choke that has never really worked right. But even still, holding the flap closed with my thumb, good fuel, good spark, and still nothing. Ether won't even help. It's been dead for 2 days now. I've ran my optima dry cell down 3 times now trying to start it.

I plan on buying a manual choke for the carb, and I think I'm gonna get a throttle lock too, so I can keep the rpm up to warm it up.

Any thoughts on why this sucker won't start?

15austin · Post by **15austin** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:29 am

My truck has a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose. It helps alot during cold weather. Maybe one would help you.

plydus340 · Post by **plydus340** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:17 am

Living in the south, thets not sucha problem, but maybe a block heater, or maybe your fuel is freezing?

digdoug · Post by **digdoug** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:04 pm

My yellow 383 truck hates the cold too. Block or heater line heaters work wonders, A halogen work light under the oil pan for a couple hours works pretty good too. Over the last 4 days I have been bringing all my truck batterys in the house for a warm up and charge.

Post by **wally426ci** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:46 pm

plydus340 wrote:Living in the south, thets not sucha problem, but maybe a block heater, or maybe your fuel is freezing?

I was thinking fuel too.....

mopardwh · Post by **mopardwh** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:19 pm

wally426ci wrote:
plydus340 wrote:maybe your fuel is freezing?

I was thinking fuel too.....

I've been thinking about that. I guess I could try some fuel addititve.

Post by **wally426ci** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:22 am

Doug, maybe some additive and then if it doesnt get above freezing....... ok I was about to suggest heating up the carb and lines with a torch but then I remember that fuel and fire make BOOM!! so I don't know how you can heat it up and get the additive through the veins.

Post by **Hobcobble** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:10 am

mopardwh wrote:
wally426ci wrote:
plydus340 wrote:maybe your fuel is freezing?

I was thinking fuel too.....
I've been thinking about that. I guess I could try some fuel addititve.

Get K100G if its available.
John

MountainMoparRobin · Post by **MountainMoparRobin** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:02 am

mopardwh wrote:
wally426ci wrote:
plydus340 wrote:maybe your fuel is freezing?

I was thinking fuel too.....
I've been thinking about that. I guess I could try some fuel addititve.

for gas to freeze, in Alaska I was able to start my vehicles when it was 70 below zero, and gas wasn't frozen, you would have to have a water downed tank, but if you see fuel being squirted then its not frozen, also from reading that you said you were holding the choke closed then that was exactly the opposite of what you should have done, it needs some air, and after you pumped fuel in it, you need air to mix with it, I've started the 440 at 35 below zero here, took 2 batteries, the cold drains down the cranking ability of the battery. if everything is order, they will start, and freezing gas? somewhere around 150 below zero.

PatS · Post by **PatS** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:04 pm

I had a 76 Plymouth GranFury with a 360 that was a dog in our Alberta winters.

Solution??

TWO block heaters, and an electric battery blanket.

I plugged it into the porch light and just turned it on 2 hrs before going out...started easily every time and had heat almost instantly at 30 and 40 below. Just that 2 hours would melt the snow off the hood at 30 below.

I have a garage now, just one block heater (Dodge Caravan) but I still have a battery warmer. If the battery is warm then you gain 50% more than a cold battery and usually that bit extra is enough to get things started.

712edf · Post by **712edf** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:18 pm

moparwh, does the 88 plymouth still have the oldschool gear reduction starter? If so maybe a switch to newer style hi-torque mini starter might get the 318 to spin a little better in the cold. Also placing a heat lamp under the hood at night might keep some heat in the area to keep battery & carb warm. Tedious to jack with, but quicker than dicking with ether/jumper cables.

bucky

mopardwh · Post by **mopardwh** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:50 pm

Guys I've got an optima red top dry cell battery and and it spins over excellent at any temperature. I've tested for spark (good), and I can physically see the fuel squirt in. Robin, I've tried it several ways with the flap. Usually, I don't even touch it and I just start it without a choke. Plus, the flap doesn't completely cut off air. Anyway, I guess it just floods EXTREMELY easy or something.

712edf wrote: Also placing a heat lamp under the hood at night might keep some heat in the area to keep battery & carb warm.

I've heard that also, I guess I'll give that a try. Maybe I'll start looking for a block heater also. I park in the street in front of my house and I really don't like the idea of an extension chord in my front yard. But if that's what it takes then ok.

Oh, now that it's only 40 outside, it just fired right up. We'll see how it does in the morning.

712edf · Post by **712edf** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:59 pm

Do you have kids? Have them earn some allowance by running outside about 10pm and starting it, letting it run a couple minutes. Possibly again around 3am. You fuel mileage will go to sh!t, but maybe it'll still be warm enough in the morning to fire right up for ya.

The way people are these days, an extension cord across the yard will be stolen by the second night. Heads will do anything for a hook-up of pills,juice,whatever.

bucky

Post by **wally426ci** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 am

I don't think you should send a 3 or so year old out to start your car...

MountainMoparRobin · Post by **MountainMoparRobin** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:10 am

mopardwh wrote:Guys I've got an optima red top dry cell battery and and it spins over excellent at any temperature. I've tested for spark (good), and I can physically see the fuel squirt in. Robin, I've tried it several ways with the flap. Usually, I don't even touch it and I just start it without a choke. Plus, the flap doesn't completely cut off air. Anyway, I guess it just floods EXTREMELY easy or something.

712edf wrote: Also placing a heat lamp under the hood at night might keep some heat in the area to keep battery & carb warm.
I've heard that also, I guess I'll give that a try. Maybe I'll start looking for a block heater also. I park in the street in front of my house and I really don't like the idea of an extension chord in my front yard. But if that's what it takes then ok.

Oh, now that it's only 40 outside, it just fired right up. We'll see how it does in the morning.

then, you'll have to use the start safe system that is built in to all carburators, this is old school, you may know about it and forgot, if it doesn't start after pumping a squirt or two of gas, with choke open, floor the gas pedal, has to be all the way to the floor, never let off (until it actually starts, and smoothes out) it will take a couple of cranks, and it will try and not make it a couple of times, but keep the pedal to the floor and don't burn up the starter, it will start, it will be ruff sounding while its starting, but its a fail safe start, also used when its flooded

paizao99 · Post by **paizao99** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:54 am

Couldn't agree more with Robin about gas not freezing until well past -100; however, nowadays people had the bright idea of putting water in gas and calling it ethanol. If you are using E10 fuel then it is possible that the water content in the fuel is freezing. Stay away from that crap.

mopardwh · Post by **mopardwh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:25 pm

wally426ci wrote:I don't think you should send a 3 or so year old out to start your car...

Yeah, he's only 1 and a half.

Won't be long before he can though! This was right after the first time he ever sat in my truck, or any vehicle with a stick. We drove to the back yard, and by the time I got out and walked around the truck he took over! (he had just turned 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a78HJU-idaM

MountainMoparRobin wrote:then, you'll have to use the start safe system that is built in to all carburators, this is old school, you may know about it and forgot, if it doesn't start after pumping a squirt or two of gas, with choke open, floor the gas pedal, has to be all the way to the floor, never let off (until it actually starts, and smoothes out) it will take a couple of cranks, and it will try and not make it a couple of times, but keep the pedal to the floor and don't burn up the starter, it will start, it will be ruff sounding while its starting, but its a fail safe start, also used when its flooded

Oh no, I didn't forget. I tried that also. Held it to the floor the entire time while running down a fully charged battery.

MowagW200 · Post by **MowagW200** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:13 am

My truck didn't start good when I got it. From the fire rescue I got it I heard it was never starting good. Most time the engine has drawn or they used an Unimog to pull the Mowag until the engine has started.
When I did a cold start in spring with an additional starter pack and the starter few times only clacked until it cranked the engine I decided to restore the starter motor. Since it is restored my truck starts like a new truck even below zero.
Warm start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stiv9kcVu7c

surfnuke9 · Post by **surfnuke9** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:22 am

This is a summary of what I did to resolve this issue:

OK, cold starting issues are resolved.

To summarize my actions to diagnose and resolve this:

Checked/reset timing.
Adjusted carburetor for maximum manifold vacuum at idle (no tach so just which idle speed sounded right).
Replaced plugs and gapped them a bit higher than stock due to the electronic ignition in my truck.
Disconnected and cleaned all connections to the starter solenoid and starter.
replaced ignition switch.

These steps made a big difference, but still had issues.

Bypassed the ballast resistor (not needed with my electronic ignition (DUI))

BIG difference but still some issues when below 30F.

Replaced the starter with a reman unit rated at 1.8Kw.

Eureka! measured the voltage drop after the starter was replaced and it doesnt even drop below 12V now.

The truck starts like a dream and doesnt even need full choke any more. Started right up this morning at 12F with no issues at all.

My entire post on this: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17651&p=128034&hili ... rt#p128034

mopardwh · Post by **mopardwh** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:57 pm

So the problem is the carb floods very easy in the cold. I installed a freeze plug type block heater, and plugged it in. The next morning it fired right up. I left it at work (plugged in) over night and went out of town. The next night when I got back to the shop, I pumped it 3 times like normal, and started it up. It died after a few seconds (normal) and I started it back up. The third time I had to start it I only pumped it twice more and it would not fire again. I cranked with the pedal to the floor (in spurts) until the battery started to get weak. So I left it and took the company truck home. The next day after work, I tried it again without pumping, but a dose of starting fluid. NOTHING. So I removed every plug one by one and cleaned them (they were all fuel soaked). After that it fired right up. For the past several days now, I just pump it once and it's been starting and I'm still keeping it plugged in.

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