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Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:37 pm
by ChipolteOrangeD300
I am looking for an understanding of how this throw out bearing is supposed to be aligned by the spring that attaches to the throwout lever?
At the moment when the clutch is released the throw out lever gets slack and falls down slightly away from the contact points on the bearing...
Will a new spring solve this? IF that Is so, any suggestions on how to get the spring on. The present one was a real challenge to attach to the bearing, and I had the transmission removed to do it. Now with the tranny in place I am at a loss.
Any and all suggestions welcome
Thanks,
Jase
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:29 am
by Zpsull01
I'm not sure how this set-up was meant to be but most T/O's clip onto the fork and always stay attached to the fork. The bearing keeps the fork and T/O assembly centered on the shaft and the clips keep contact between the fork and the T/O.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:09 am
by Wildergarten
ChipolteOrangeD300 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:37 pm
I am looking for an understanding of how this throw out bearing is supposed to be aligned by the spring that attaches to the throwout lever?
At the moment when the clutch is released the throw out lever gets slack and falls down slightly away from the contact points on the bearing...
Will a new spring solve this? IF that Is so, any suggestions on how to get the spring on. The present one was a real challenge to attach to the bearing, and I had the transmission removed to do it. Now with the tranny in place I am at a loss.
Any and all suggestions welcome
Thanks,
Jase
The fork is supported by a piece of angle with a slot in it bolted to the bell. The fork has a flat spring clip riveted to the back side that goes through the slot. The clip holds the fork against the edge of the piece of angle such that it forms a fulcrum. The two ends of the fork are cupped such that they can accept the TWO springs on the cast hub holding the throwout bearing and allow the fork ends to go through the arc and slip a bit because the path of the casting on the also greased extension tube on the transmission is straight, not curved like the path of the fork tips. So it's a setup meant to be sloppy enough to deal with that difference in travel paths (IIRC, the tips of the fork are to be greased upon installation).
The fork is driven by a threaded push rod with a thick washer and contact pad. The rod is driven by a linkage tube which has two arms with knobs on the ends, one from the clutch pedal and one through an eye on the rod that drives the fork. Both eyes on the ends of these rods get a goofy clip that goes over the top edge to retain the eye inside the knob so that the rod doesn't fall off. Said tube has coiled springs inside each end to keep it from rattling. It is mounted on brackets with a rod and spherical end that goes into the tube, each end held by a nylon split-shell, also greased. There is also a return spring into a notch on the fork.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:59 am
by PwrWgnDrvr
Wildergarten wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:09 am
The fork is supported by a piece of angle with a slot in it bolted to the bell. The fork has a flat spring clip riveted to the back side that goes through the slot. The clip holds the fork against the edge of the piece of angle such that it forms a fulcrum. The two ends of the fork are cupped such that they can accept the TWO springs on the cast hub holding the throwout bearing and allow the fork ends to go through the arc and slip a bit because the path of the casting on the also greased extension tube on the transmission is straight, not curved like the path of the fork tips. So it's a setup meant to be sloppy enough to deal with that difference in travel paths (IIRC, the tips of the fork are to be greased upon installation).
The fork is driven by a threaded push rod with a thick washer and contact pad. The rod is driven by a linkage tube which has two arms with knobs on the ends, one from the clutch pedal and one through an eye on the rod that drives the fork. Both eyes on the ends of these rods get a goofy clip that goes over the top edge to retain the eye inside the knob so that the rod doesn't fall off. Said tube has coiled springs inside each end to keep it from rattling. It is mounted on brackets with a rod and spherical end that goes into the tube, each end held by a nylon split-shell, also greased. There is also a return spring into a notch on the fork.
Simple, eh?
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:56 am
by ChipolteOrangeD300
Wildergarten wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:09 am
The fork is supported by a piece of angle with a slot in it bolted to the bell. The fork has a flat spring clip riveted to the back side that goes through the slot. The clip holds the fork against the edge of the piece of angle such that it forms a fulcrum. The two ends of the fork are cupped such that they can accept the TWO springs on the cast hub holding the throwout bearing and allow the fork ends to go through the arc and slip a bit because the path of the casting on the also greased extension tube on the transmission is straight, not curved like the path of the fork tips. So it's a setup meant to be sloppy enough to deal with that difference in travel paths (IIRC, the tips of the fork are to be greased upon installation).
The fork is driven by a threaded push rod with a thick washer and contact pad. The rod is driven by a linkage tube which has two arms with knobs on the ends, one from the clutch pedal and one through an eye on the rod that drives the fork. Both eyes on the ends of these rods get a goofy clip that goes over the top edge to retain the eye inside the knob so that the rod doesn't fall off. Said tube has coiled springs inside each end to keep it from rattling. It is mounted on brackets with a rod and spherical end that goes into the tube, each end held by a nylon split-shell, also greased. There is also a return spring into a notch on the fork.
Magnificent explanation. Thank You!
If I may ask, Regarding the flat spring clip that holds the fork edge against the bolted in angle-folcurm. If my clip is not real strong,(slightly bent, not straight any longer) and allowing the throwout lever to flop around (in and out, or away and towards the input shaft)
Guessing it would be wise to remove and straighten the clip so it can do it's job..
BUT My Cast Throwout bearing retainer assembly does not have any springs. I have seen such an animal on my 77 D200, but that bearing and all is for the fine spline sized assembly.. I will attempt to post a picture of what I am looking at. Expecting to hear that it was cobbled by the previous owner...
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:05 am
by PwrWgnDrvr
Yes, fix the flat spring clip and the t/o bearing springs have been known to break and fall out. They are not heavy gauge springs. They are included on new t/o bearings when purchased. Fixing may not be possible w/o pulling the tranny.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:09 am
by PwrWgnDrvr
BTW - Wildergarten's description on the rod assembly that actuates the clutch fork is for the 69 and later trucks with the mechanical bell. Earlier trucks do not use that complex assembly. Also, the earlier forks pivot on a ball stud, not a slotted angle.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:17 am
by ChipolteOrangeD300
PwrWgnDrvr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:09 am
BTW - Wildergarten's description on the rod assembly that actuates the clutch fork is for the 69 and later trucks with the mechanical bell. Earlier trucks do not use that complex assembly. Also, the earlier forks pivot on a ball stud, not a slotted angle.
Yes thank you. I do not have the truck. I bought a slant six and NP435 which was taken out of a mid 50's Pilot Era truck. NO telling what someone did ahead of me.
PwrWgnDrvr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:05 am
Yes, fix the flat spring clip and the t/o bearing springs have been known to break and fall out. They are not heavy gauge springs. They are included on new t/o bearings when purchased. Fixing may not be possible w/o pulling the tranny.
Ok. so the tranny comes out to do this... Thanks. I am thinking my cast throwout bearing retainer is NOT correct for this application. Not having any luck attaching a picture as it is telling me the file is too large. No clue how to crop or reduce file size on my cell phone, so this may be a picture less description.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:55 pm
by Wildergarten
You are quite welcome.
ChipolteOrangeD300 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:56 am
If I may ask, Regarding the flat spring clip that holds the fork edge against the bolted in angle-folcurm. If my clip is not real strong,(slightly bent, not straight any longer) and allowing the throwout lever to flop around (in and out, or away and towards the input shaft)
Guessing it would be wise to remove and straighten the clip so it can do it's job..
Beats pulling the tranny, doesn't it?
ChipolteOrangeD300 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:56 am
BUT My Cast Throwout bearing retainer assembly does not have any springs. I have seen such an animal on my 77 D200, but that bearing and all is for the fine spline sized assembly.. I will attempt to post a picture of what I am looking at. Expecting to hear that it was cobbled by the previous owner...
PwrWgnDrvr may have the explanation for you.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:57 pm
by Wildergarten
ChipolteOrangeD300 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:17 am
Not having any luck attaching a picture as it is telling me the file is too large. No clue how to crop or reduce file size on my cell phone, so this may be a picture less description.
Look at the settings for taking a picture. It will give you options for the resolution.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:50 pm
by oldfrogdiving
Im dealing with what seems like a similar issue, my 71 W200 318/ Np435 just lost clutch pedal. Several years ago I added an old shock absorber bushing where the linkage pivot that goes on engine block side resides, it didnt have a bushing when i paid 300bucks for the whole truck, that seemed to tighten the whole pedal linkage up alot. But alas when i drug my battered body up under neath her its gone, Now it looks like the T/O bearing is not sitting on the clutch fork correctly I was driving when I felt it go and manage to get it back home. Is it even possible to get the spring back on the fork with out removing tranny? I have the inspection plate off but need to look at this when im less battered and sore. I have been in Arkansas and this young kid I know drove it for about 2 weeks he has an old a100van and knows mopars but he deployed back overseas, I had to bleed the brakes before i could start driving her again...
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:27 pm
by ChipolteOrangeD300
oldfrogdiving wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:50 pm
Now it looks like the T/O bearing is not sitting on the clutch fork correctly I was driving when I felt it go and manage to get it back home. Is it even possible to get the spring back on the fork with out removing tranny?
Yes, I believe you can get the spring back on. I was able to do so last summer with a pair of needle nose pliers. I believe The clutch fork can also be removed from the bell housing as it is held in by a spring like clip. Then you can decide if you want to attach the spring to the fork first or the throw out bearing.
Re: Mechanical bell housing throwout lever questions
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:47 pm
by oldfrogdiving
Thanks Just ready to tackle that after i slam a sandwich...