What to do

[Drummerdad]

So today I started tearing into my parts truck to get things going on Isaac truck. Im getting some great parts. But it got me to thinking....

I have a modified frame under Isaacs truck, where the previous owner spliced in a newer frame, for a-arms. But the parts truck has a frame. I thought maybe I should work on shortening the parts truck frame (it is a long bed, and Isaacs truck is a shortbed), and putting a drop and some new parts on it, instead of worrying about the spliced frame it has. The only other option is to weld in some supports to make sure it doesnt break at the welds. Im more concerned with the frame splice and the rigged up body mounts, than I am with having an a-arm suspension. I would rather have an original frame, even if its shortened, with an original beam, even if its dropped. The only other option is a custom frame, and I dont have that kind of money.

[Hobcobble]

Your frame has the VIN # stamped on it on the rail just over the left front
drum. I'm not sure what your motor vehicle laws are, but here, the VIN tag
on the door jam has to match the frame rail. Would you
register it as a D200?
John

[Drummerdad]

Hmm. Didnt know that. That creates another issue. The frame has already been cut and spliced at the firewall. I have a clean TN title for it though, for whatever thats worth. After reading the lowering thread, Im not so sure about the longer frame and shortening it just to put older suspension under the truck. It seems if I can make the IFS (A-arms) work, it might be better. Plus I have power steering now, even though its a little shady. Im going to have to really read up. It might be better to re-enforce the frame, and fab new cab supports. I wouldnt have to deal with 8 lug pattern either.

[soopernaut]

In order to shorten the parts truck frame you will need to splice it, so you would be back to square one.

[Drummerdad]

In order to shorten the parts truck frame you will need to splice it, so you would be back to square one.

Yes, but the front mounting point for the radiator support, and the cab mounts would be untouched. It would also resolve some of my steering issues, where the previous owner did a lousy job installing the column and power steering u-joints. Of course it would also create more problems--I would have to add power steering back or lose it, I would lose the front disc brakes, I would have to lower the beam front end. Its basically a pain either way.

I might just strengthen what I have and see if I can make it work. I want to use the steering column from the parts truck, because its original, and the column that is in Isaacs truck now is too long, and at a weird angle( the PO wanted a tilt column). That might be the biggest complaint I have to be honest. If I can get the factory column to work with what I have, Ill leave it. I may have to buy an after market column thats shorter, to get the wheel away from my chest a bit, and get the blinker stalk where it belongs.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

Your frame has the VIN # stamped on it on the rail just over the left front
drum. I'm not sure what your motor vehicle laws are, but here, the VIN tag
on the door jam has to match the frame rail. Would you
register it as a D200?
John

Its over the RIGHT front drum, not the WRONG front drum.

[Hobcobble]

Your frame has the VIN # stamped on it on the rail just over the left front
drum. I'm not sure what your motor vehicle laws are, but here, the VIN tag
on the door jam has to match the frame rail. Would you
register it as a D200?
John

Its over the RIGHT front drum, not the WRONG front drum.

Whoops!... You're exactly right Terry! ...

John

[Drummerdad]

So, Im in the middle of wiring the truck now, and as I am running the wires to the rear lights, I start to get a good look at the frame. Im not sure I can use the frame the truck is on. The welds look like garbage. It has been hacked and spliced in several places. So, I think Im going to reconsider shortening the long frame from the parts truck. That will cause me to work out a few problems, But I wont have to worry about the frame coming apart when I hit a bump. Its not so bad Im scared of the truck, but Im not going to take a chance by leaving it for the long haul. Ill get the truck running, and working, and start on the other frame.

That will bring up a few other questions for you guys who have been doing this awhile. My goal is to leave as much of Isaacs truck as possible, so the cab and bed stay. Ill have some repairs to do to the cab floors, cab mounts and the bed, but it shouldnt be too bad. Here are some thoughts, and you guys can chime in, and tell me what you have done, or would not do again.

1) Frame. I have to shorten the frame. I have access to a certified welder, and some good equipment. It shouldnt be too bad. I just have to find out where to cut the long frame. It is an 8 lug chassis, and its a 67. I assume the only difference between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton is the axles.
2) Brakes.I want at least front discs. I have read about conversions, and Im not apposed to that. Will the 8 lug be a problem, or do the conversions change the entire front hub? I assume Ill have to swap the rear axles out or change the entire rear end over for the 8 lug to 5 lug swap.
3) Power steering. My wife and I talked about it, and the steering is part of the "old truck" feel. Im not against leaving the original steering (maybe until I have to drive it awhile with it, I dont know). I dont know if I want to convert the solid axle front end over to power steering. I guess I will have to wait and see.
4) IFS clip conversion. I have read with interest the front end conversions that work well. Again, Ill have access to a welder and would be able to do a good job. It would also solve the issue with the VIN number not matching between the frame and cab. I live in TN, so Im sure I can get the truck titled no matter what I decide to do, plus I have the title for the parts truck, which matches the frame, and the vin plate. It might be a rebuilt title, but who cares.
5)Im not as worried about it being original, as I am it being complete. I want a good usable truck, that turns heads and isnt like every other vehicle on the road. It will never be a show truck, or a restored truck. I will haul things in the bed. It will get bumps and bruises, and plenty of miles put on it.

I eventually want to put a 360 in it, maybe a 5 speed. 4 wheel disc brakes would be good too. Im only putting the radio in it, because it has the hole in the dash. It wont be hooked up for now. I hate rat rods, but I dont mind an honest survivor, that has a few mismatched parts, and some real rust and rash. Thats where I feel this truck will be. Like the grumpy old timer you know, who is tough as nails and crazy strong, with a bunch of old war stories. Hes no metro-sexual runway model. He does real work, and he doesnt care what you think.

[hmaynord]

Hes no metro-sexual runway model.

just starting to think about what that might look like almost ruined my whole day

[soopernaut]

1) Frame. I have to shorten the frame. I have access to a certified welder, and some good equipment. It shouldnt be too bad. I just have to find out where to cut the long frame. It is an 8 lug chassis, and its a 67. I assume the only difference between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton is the axles.
2) Brakes.I want at least front discs. I have read about conversions, and Im not apposed to that. Will the 8 lug be a problem, or do the conversions change the entire front hub? I assume Ill have to swap the rear axles out or change the entire rear end over for the 8 lug to 5 lug swap.
3) Power steering. My wife and I talked about it, and the steering is part of the "old truck" feel. Im not against leaving the original steering (maybe until I have to drive it awhile with it, I dont know). I dont know if I want to convert the solid axle front end over to power steering. I guess I will have to wait and see.
4) IFS clip conversion. I have read with interest the front end conversions that work well. Again, Ill have access to a welder and would be able to do a good job. It would also solve the issue with the VIN number not matching between the frame and cab. I live in TN, so Im sure I can get the truck titled no matter what I decide to do, plus I have the title for the parts truck, which matches the frame, and the vin plate. It might be a rebuilt title, but who cares.

You'll have to decide what you want for a front suspension first. If you decide to use the IFS clip, the best place to splice is under the cab. The 72-93 frames are the same width and height under the cab. You'll also have to splice an area somewhere between the rear wheels and front of the bed for a short bed. The frame is probably pretty straight there so it might not matter where you splice. You'll probably have to cut the rear of the frame off too to make it shorter behind the axle.

The spindles on most 3/4 ton Dodge trucks of this era are the same as the 1/2 ton ones. For disc brakes you can get a different hub that will work with your spindle on the 3/4 ton. Those with 1/2 tons can reuse the stock ones or get replacements.

There was a power assist steering from the factory for these trucks. There is also and integrated p/s kit from CPP. Some people have made their own p/s from a donor vehicle.

[DavidPope]

Check out my build thread.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=41000
If you shorten it in the right place you eliminate the problem with the frame being too high behind the rear axle

[Drummerdad]

Good information guys. Im moving along with the build. Currently waiting on my gauges to be made so I can finish the wiring. I bought custom gauges from Speedhut. Ill post pics (or links) when they get here. They should be nice. I want to get the truck running and on the road, then Ill start stripping the old truck down to the frame. Im going to keep everything I think I can use. The fenders, the bed, all of it. The more I look at the bed in Isaacs truck (the short bed) the more repairs Im going to have to make. The P.O. was a butcher.

Im trying to read up on the frame mods, so I can make sure I know what needs to happen. Im thinking Ill shorten it first, then start looking for an IFS front clip. Thatll give me disc brakes also, and aftermarket options. Then Ill look at swapping the rear brakes for discs. Im on the fence about an air suspension. I like the low look, but the ride quality seems to suffer at full pressure, and seems soft at lower pressure, at least thats what Ive read. I might just do a static drop, maybe even some coil overs. I have them on my daily driver (07 charger rt), and they work well. I would like to be able to use the bed.

Ive got some work to do. It has been raining here a lot lately, so I cant get to the parts truck to strip it. I need to see what transmission it has (its a 4 speed in the floor) and what rearend it has. The parts truck is an 8 lug, but I dont know if its the same rearend as Isaacs truck. I think his truck is an 8-3/4". Not too sure. Isaacs truck was originally a 3 spd on the column, but it has been switched to an auto. I might see if I can switch to a manual, using parts from the parts truck, and a 5 spd tranny from a dakota. Again, I have a lot to look into.

[soopernaut]

The parts truck is going to have a Dana 60 rear axle. It is not the same as the axle in the other truck. An 8.75 will have a round, smooth cover on the back and a removable center section that comes out the front.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

Isn't the back of the 8.75 a welded on, non removable plate?

[Drummerdad]

The rearend in Isaacs truck resembles a ford 9". Removable center section, that comes out the front, and a smooth non-removable cover on the back side. Im sure we ran the numbers before, and it was an 8-3/4", and its either a posi or limited slip (it wont spin unless both tires are off the ground). I havent seen the rearend in the parts truck. I need to really get under that parts truck, and look at the transmission, and rearend.

[Drummerdad]

So, Ive been searching, and the only 4 speed manual I can find available for use in 1967 was the A-833. Was there another one available? I know I need to look at it, and I will, but thats all I can find. Remember its an 8 lug, d200 (?) with the 318. If it is the a-833, it might be usable. It seems to be a tough transmission from what Im reading.


Upon further review, there is also the New Process 435, which appears to be a heavy duty "bulldog" transmission. It had available first gears ratios of 4.56 and 6.68. Thats steep. Ill pull the trans cover tomorrow, maybe, and see what I have. Even the 833 had steep gears, but it would be driveable on the highways, with a 1st gear of 2.56.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

The D200 will have a NP 435. It will be listed on the vin plate on the door jam.

[soopernaut]

Isn't the back of the 8.75 a welded on, non removable plate?

Yes, I used the term cover but it is not removable.

The only two 4 speeds in light duty Dodge trucks of this era are the NP435 and NP445. There was no A833 in a 60s truck.