clutch problem, please help!

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clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:13 pm

Recently acquired a 318 powered 68 Power Wagon with no engine, but still has trans and bellhousing. The trans has a 1 inch 10 spline input shaft. Crossmember is in front of the trans rather than behind it. It has a 1/2 inch plate between trans and bellhousing, which mounts to crossmember. I installed a 360 in it and cannot find a clutch disk for it. I have a 23 spline clutch disk from a 71 which would work fine other than the spline, but all of the 10 spline disks I have been able to find do not have a long enough center hub for proper engagement. The 23 spline disk measures 1.25 inch from the flywheel surface to the back of the hub on the pressure plate side. My parts guy who is usually able to find anything says the part which I need is no longer available. I would like to run an 11 inch disk and I have a pressure plate and new throwout bearing for it already. It appears that the truck originally had a hydraulic clutch, but has been replaced with mechanical linkage. So, my desperate questions are... Does anyone know where to find a friction plate for this, or have a valid part number? What is the deal with the forward placed crossmember?
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68 trans.jpg
68 crossmember.jpg
68 clutch.jpg
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby Hobcobble » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:45 pm

What flywheel are you using? :thinking You need a '62-'68 A/LA 318 hydraulic
clutch flywheel and it would need to be balanced to work behind an LA360. The
clutch disc/pressure plate/throw out bearing & pilot bushing can be had from:
www.hrclutch.com

You cannot mix post '68 mechanical clutch parts with '68 and earlier parts.
The post '68 flywheels will not work with the hydraulic clutch set ups.

John
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby powerwagon54 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:13 pm

I have the 10 spline clutch assys in stock.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby PwrWgnDrvr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:48 pm

W20071 wrote:What is the deal with the forward placed crossmember?

That's the way all the std trans trucks were made from 61-68.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby Jim100 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:08 am

As John said make sure you sort out the flywheel bit. You can have a machine shop balance a hydraulic 318 flywheel that will then be correct for the 360.
There are also 360 flywheels out there that work for the hydraulic setup. Brewers maybe ?
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Hobcobble wrote:What flywheel are you using? :thinking You need a '62-'68 A/LA 318 hydraulic
clutch flywheel and it would need to be balanced to work behind an LA360. The
clutch disc/pressure plate/throw out bearing & pilot bushing can be had from:
http://www.hrclutch.com

You cannot mix post '68 mechanical clutch parts with '68 and earlier parts.
The post '68 flywheels will not work with the hydraulic clutch set ups.

John


Thanks John,
I am using the flywheel which was already on the 360. The truck has all mechanical clutch linkage, all that remains of the hydraulic setup is the master cylinder on the firewall and the line has been cut off. I have no idea why someone changed it, but it was working before the previous owner pulled the engine.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:24 pm

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:
W20071 wrote:What is the deal with the forward placed crossmember?

That's the way all the std trans trucks were made from 61-68.


Thanks, I was not aware of that. So I am guessing that only 61-68 transmissions will work with it? Without major modifications of course.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:52 pm

69-up trans might bolt to that bellhousing I suppose, but you're still left with the flywheel issues (balance AND the fact that bell uses a different flywheel than the 69-87 mechanical bells).

Get the correct disc from HR Clutch & get a 61-68 318 flywheel balanced to your 360 then you're good to go.

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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 pm

712edf wrote:69-up trans might bolt to that bellhousing I suppose, but you're still left with the flywheel issues (balance AND the fact that bell uses a different flywheel than the 69-87 mechanical bells).

Get the correct disc from HR Clutch & get a 61-68 318 flywheel balanced to your 360 then you're good to go.

Bucky

What is the difference between bellhousings? I'm using the one that was working with a mechanical clutch on the 318. It has a ball stud for the clutch fork to pivot on. Since I am not changing it back to hydraulic, will the 360 flywheel not work? I've had it all bolted together, then realized the disk which i put in it was a 1 1/8 and not a 1 inch (was excited to get it running and not checking things out properly :shame ), So I had to pull the trans back out.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:28 pm

So you are not using the bellhousing that mounts to the crossmember? If so then your flywheel will fit, but I can't say about that 10 spline transmission, input shaft may not be proper length.

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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby PwrWgnDrvr » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:21 pm

Looks like a mechanical clutch bell with the mounting ears of a hydro bell welded to it. Some sort of mickey rig setup. Maybe a 69-71 bell with an early 10 spline trans?
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:50 pm

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:Looks like a mechanical clutch bell with the mounting ears of a hydro bell welded to it. Some sort of mickey rig setup.

I think you're right. I didn't look closely & just thought it was a normal hydro-bell, with mechanical linkage adapted to it. I was wrong. It appears to be a 69-up bell with the rear of a 68-back bell added to it. One of a kind & no telling what it would take to make it work if it didn't already come with everything needed.

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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby PwrWgnDrvr » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:48 pm

Even more bizarre has to be the hacked up floor and cobbled together clutch pedal to put mech linkage in a 68 truck. All that stuff is totally different in early vs late trucks.
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:25 pm

Thank you all for the help/info. I was able to find a clutch assembly from a 66, now I see what the differences are. This truck is definitely running a 69 up bellhousing, nothing is welded to it, it has a plate with motor mounts sandwiched between bell and trans which is shown in previous picture. The plate adds to the depth of the newer bell so that the input shaft length will work. The clutch pedal has an adjustable stop(?) and a pushrod mount welded to it. The whole setup is crude and ugly but it looks plenty strong. Please don't hate me, I didn't modify it, I'm only trying to figure out how to make it work again. Here's a pic of the pedal and some of the two different types of bellhousing for possibly others like myself who hadn't yet seen a hydraulic one. I will probably start a build thread for this truck so you can see if it all works out.
Thanks again!
68 pedal.jpg
clutch pedal modifications
68 bht.jpg
top view of bellhousing and plate currently in truck
68 bhr.jpg
68 hydraulic bellhousing and 69 up mechanical bellhousing
68 bhf.jpg
68 hydraulic bellhousing and 69 up mechanical bellhousing
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:05 pm

Thank you for the additional pictures. That explains alot!

So you already have a 143 tooth flywheel for the 360? I'm guessing the disc is the only thing missing (which is what you told us in the beginning. :lol: )

Did HR Clutch have what you needed?

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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby W20071 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:48 am

712edf wrote:Thank you for the additional pictures. That explains alot!

So you already have a 143 tooth flywheel for the 360? I'm guessing the disc is the only thing missing (which is what you told us in the beginning. :lol: )

Did HR Clutch have what you needed?

Bucky

Is 143 a common flywheel? if so then yes, it is the one that came on the 360 and it takes a regular old Chrysler starter. There was a clutch disk with the 66 parts I found, it was in bad shape so I dropped it off at the parts store to have it re-lined. Should have got a pic of it first, but the spline was correct and in good shape. I will show it when i get it back. I did contact HR Clutch and they are awesome, they say they can build me one and ship it in a day. I am considering purchasing a complete 12 inch setup from them if the 11 inch doesn't hold up in the Truck and Tractor pulls.
Thanks,
Wilson
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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:55 pm

The 143 tooth flywheel was used in 1969 through 1987/8 (maybe later. I don't know) Dodge trucks with the 435/445 4 speed transmissions. Same flywheel no matter small block or big, but........ they did come with different balances. The neutral balance flywheels worked on 318/383 & forged crank 440s (I think most 440 trucks were cast crank). External balanced engines (400, cast crank 440) had a weighted flywheel, as did the 360. Since you have the flywheel with your 360 then you are good to go once you get your disc.

I don't recall if a 12" disc would work with that bellhousing or not. I know medium duty trucks used 12/13/14" disc but they are a different animal altogether.

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Re: clutch problem, please help!

Postby 712edf » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:58 pm

Also you can use the modern mini starters that came around in the late 80's, in place of the old 13lb gear reduction unit.

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