Sweptline.ORG

Dodge Challenger wheels fit great and the backspace is perfect; no adapters needed (18" x 7")

Sorry to break it to you, but those wheels don't really fit. I realize you bolted them on, and they look like they fit, but the bolt pattern is slightly off, therefore the lugs will not set properly and could cause you serious problems down the road. (Literally)

Great looking truck though! to the site!!!

The look good but like he previos poster said they are not a perfect fit. They are a 5x115 bolt pattern not a 5x114.3 (5x4.5)

Look good , but yes, not the correct pattern

FYI,

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34431&p=249381&hili ... ds#p249381

I NEVER knew this!! Glad I peeked in to see the post!

You can run those wheels, but you MUST also run adapters!!! What is happening is that the lug nuts are only making contact with a very small area of the wheel seat, causing a LOT of stress on the lug bolts. This will cause breakage of one or more lug bolts and/or loosening of the wheel lug nuts in very short order...Throw the stockers back on the truck until you get adapters...that is not a mere suggestion! Your life, and everyone on the road around you, depends on you doing so.

I hear you but there is a .027" difference between a 114.3mm and 115mm bolt pattern. Radially that is only .0135" (less than 1/64) The Crown vic guys have been doing it on their 3800+ pound cars without issues so far. With the wheels bolted on with 3 nuts the remaining studs appeared relativly centered. I'll be the guinea pig and keep yall posted. Worst case secnario is I'll have to machine a ring to make them hub centric to bear the majority of the load and or make a cutter that will center the countersink around the new bolt pattern. Stay tuned!

Good luck man! Although worst case scenario is actually when the wheel breaks off and passes you on the highway...

Here is a pic of the wheel on my hub with a stud removed. The rusty ring is the brake drum: I can't see any appreciable misalignment.I am getting a full seating on the conical area where the nuts meet the wheel.Think of the wheel as a flange; without severe misalgnment I dont see how the stresses on the five studs are approaching the shear point of the medium grade steel studs.

It happens every day with modern factory wheels on our older vehicles - the bolt pattern is NOT the same, no matter how you try to think that it is. That 1/64" should not exist at all! That in and of itself means the wheels do NOT fit your truck! All five lugnuts MUST be seated 360* around each wheel lug seat to be right. If not, you also risk (and will get sooner than later!) cracking around each of your lug holes on your wheels, from where the stress point (that is right, point!) on each lug hole develops, causing wheel failure. If you are willing to take that chance on the road, fine. But if your negligence causes you to wreck into ME, I'll guarantee a suit. Because you are now armed with correct information concerning your wheel use, and you willfully disregard that knowledge, a lawyer will have a field day with you in court.

To quote you, you state: ""I hear you but there is a .027" difference between a 114.3mm and 115mm bolt pattern. Radially that is only .0135" (less than 1/64) The Crown Vic guys have been doing it on their 3800+ pound cars without issues so far."" And, "With the wheels bolted on with 3 nuts the remaining studs appeared relativly centered." Please read on...

Now, with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, the entire front suspension was redesigned for the 2001 model year, and if you look at a 2000-earlier CV/GM and a 2001-newer CV/GM, the wheel offset is completely different!!! The wheel bolt pattern changed from 4-1/2 inch to 115mm. So, the later CV/GM guys are running the very same thing you are on your truck, because they are designed to! Oh, and you can accurately eyeball the difference between 114.3mm and 115mm???

Don't say we didn't warn you.

66patrick wrote:It That 1/64" should not exist at all!
To quote you, you state: ""I hear you but there is a .027" difference between a 114.3mm and 115mm bolt pattern. Radially that is only .0135" (less than 1/64) The Crown Vic guys have been doing it on their 3800+ pound cars without issues so far."" And, "With the wheels bolted on with 3 nuts the remaining studs appeared relativly centered."


Now, with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, the entire front suspension was redesigned for the 2001 model year, and if you look at a 2000-earlier CV/GM and a 2001-newer CV/GM, the wheel offset is completely different!!! The wheel bolt pattern changed from 4-1/2 inch to 115mm. So, the later CV/GM guys are running the very same thing you are on your truck, because they are designed to! Oh, and you can accurately eyeball the difference between 114.3mm and 115mm???

I wonder how much of a tolerance there is in manufacturing? Could .0135" of difference exist between wheels of the same lug pattern? The picture I posted in the other thread makes me think the tolerance is even closer than that but most manufactured items have tolerances.

If a hub centric ring is used, the only purpose of the lugs/nuts is to clamp the wheel to the hub and the difference in patterns might be moot.

I don't believe the Crown Vic ever went to a 115 mm lug pattern. They changed the offset but kept the 114.3 mm pattern.

I'm not trying to argue but does anyone have any experience of stud failure with my application? Not just speculation or heresay? During my present career, of all the all the accidents I've been to I've never seen a wheel come off that had all lug nuts on to begin with( and my work cars have all been crown Vic's too) I do appreciate the input though. Soopernet you are correct. When ford went to the 17" steel wheels on the p71 the offset was changed as well.

Good luck on running the Charger wheels as-is. We expect pics when a wheel decides to depart your truck. I just hope no one is on the freeway with you when that happens. Enjoy the day...

And YES, I know of at least two times locally in the last year or so where this very thing happened locally. Not rumor, not conjecture, not fairy farts and unicorn piss, just fact.

Use these and live - http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Adapte ... 0-5000.htm

Okay I'm open to all input. After much research it appears that Dodge calls its 114.3 bolt pattern 115 but GM actually meaures 115. This week I am going to measure both the Chrysler and GM bolt patterns of actual vehicles to verify. I am also going to use a jig to meaure the runout in thousanths of the studs centering on the 60 degree countersink on my set up and comapre it to the Charger at my work. I'll keep you all updated. If its off I will go to my old shop and manufacture a hollow 60 degree countersink that will index on the studs and recut and center the current countersinks. Stay tuned.

The new Challengers, and all LX platform Mopars have the 5 on 115mm lug pattern. It is not the same as the 114.3mm pattern of old Mopars. It seems like a very insignificant amount, but quite a few people have mentioned vibration problems when using 4.5" lug wheels on their modern cars.

Here is a good resource for information on this subject: http://www.300cforums.com/forums/custom ... 5x115.html

Here is the difference:

fuelbender wrote: If its off I will go to my old shop and manufacture a hollow 60 degree countersink that will index on the studs and recut and center the current countersinks. Stay tuned.

That might just work! If that works, I really want to know. Don't get me wrong, I really DO like the wheels on your truck! But, other than adapters, I have not seen a possible solution to the lug and vibration problems that are happening with this combination, other than what you are proposing. Seriously, I hope this works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33KljLVvTM0

This is for wheel bolts...but i see no reason we couldn't modify it for nuts... Very interesting idea, IMO it looks more sound than a cheap aluminum spacer.

they actually make wobble nuts for this application. I just googled it

Problem solved!

That's great and all, but these trucks use lug NUTS that thread onto LUGS. The video shows lug BOLTS that most Euro and some Asian cars use. This does us no good at all. It seems a LOT of effort would be required to modify our set-ups to work with lug bolts, just to be able to utilize an incorrect bolt pattern wheel.