Electrical clue?

[Veriwide]

OK all you electrical detectives, I think "Frank" has shown me a clue.

I have been under the notion that I have a "hot start" problem, but I have the same issue when the engine is cold. When I turn my key, the starter spins. If the engine does not start right away, I turn off the key, give a few pumps of the pedal, and try again. Now when I turn the key I get a clicking sound from the starter, but it does not turn thr engine. Now once I try thr key three or four times, with the same result, it will usually turn over again. That has been going on for a while.

Here's the new "clue". Last night I found that when attempting the second starting sequence, if I turn on the headlights or blow the horn, it will turn over right away.

What does this say to you?

Why would increasing draw to the battery make the starter work better?

I have a charging issue that I have thought to be unrelated to my starter problem. Could these be related issues?

I have also noticed a corelation between the willingness of my truck to function, and the rising price of gas. I am starting to belive that my 440 will only function perfectly once gas is above $3/gal.

Anyway, thanks in advance for the input. It's roadkill season 'round here, and I have yet to scrape a groundhog out of "Frank's" treads.

Patrick Pitzer

[Veriwide]

Here is an additional question I forgot to ask:

What type of starter should I be using?

I have a 440 Magnum S out of a '69 Charger R/T. I replaced the starter a year ago with a direct replace ment of the "Direct-Drive type" starter that was on the engine. When I look at my 1969 Charger service manual, it shows a "gear-reduction type" starter being standard equipment. This truck left the factory with a 383, and my 1971 truck service manual shows both types of starters being used.

Which would be best for this engine?

Thanks,

Patrick

[73_Adventurer_Sport]

The first things I would check are the connections at the battery and make sure you cut the hard glaze off the battery posts and the cable clamps.

Next, I'd be looking for either an old battery cable, or a loose or corroded connection at the starter, starter relay, or ground.

[Jeffc]

The engine can't tell what starter you use unless it can't turn it over!!
Direct drive is right for a clutched trans, gear reduction is right for any auto trans.
Cars all used the reduction stater, only auto trucks
did....

Starting issues could be related, how do your
cables look and are they all in good shape including engine to fire wall ground??

[Veriwide]

Ok, the starter is/was related to the tranny. When my truck left the factory it was 2wd 383 w/3 speed auto trans. It is now 4wd 440 w/4 spd manual tranny and 2 stick transfer case.

Thanks,
Patrick

[wideblock]

your problem is in the starter relay. id bet money on it. if tis fairly new, run a good ground to it from the battery. they ground thru the case, thats bolted to the fender. not a very good set up, but normally it works. till you do like me and upgrade the starter and put it under a non stock load. then it is a hit or miss situation. it may fire 100 time no problem, then one time it doesnt quite get the ground it needs. try this.... when it pulls the clicking, get out and wiggle the starter relay, ill bet it starts. the problem is usually in the rivets that hold the case of the relay to the bracket. they get loose or slightly corroded and and you loose a proper ground. youll be tracking that problem till the cows come home unless you get tipped off by someone who has been there. consider this your tip off. LOLOL!!

[wideblock]

P.S. i ran a seperate ground wire from my relay case to the battery. it has never acted up again.

[Veriwide]

youll be tracking that problem till the cows come home

That's great, they're here. If you look at the images of my wiring harness in this post "http://www.sweptline.org/modules.php?na ... pic&t=7196" , the burnt and frayed wire comes form the starter relay.

Patrick

[Veriwide]

Today I replaced the starter relay, ran a ground wire to the battery from the relay, and made a new starter relay to bulkhead connector wire. I replaced the male and female terminals of the wiring harness. Those connectors are "GM 56 series" terminals. I got mine at NAPA.

It sure is nice that my truck now starts EVERY TIME I turn the key, I can't f*&^%'n believe it.

Thanks for the assistance,

Partick

[Veriwide]

After replacing every wire from the battery to the starter relay, starter relay to starter, and into the wiring harness, twice, I figured out the problem...the @%&*!$%@ battery was bad.

NEXT!!

I have rediscovered a problem I had a couple of years ago relating to the alternator. When I put some RPMs to the engine, I blow my turn signal and tail light bulbs. (not the headlights, though)

This occurs without the lights being turned on.

At idle the lights work fine

Two years ago, when I brought the truck home, the lights were out. The garage that had been working on it swore up and down that they worked at their shop, but when I got home they were out. I found that I cured the problem when I unhooked one of the field wires from the alternator, was glad to not be buying bulbs by the gross, and left it at that.

Thought the generous help of the members of this web site, an original factory service manual, parts catalog, and the best auto parts store and staff known to man (Critcher's Auto Parts, Boone, NC) I have learned a lot about how things work.

My points were replaced with the Mopar electronic kit, and it appears that it is wired correctly. I have spent a good deal of time researching this and examining my wiring, and found that I need both field wires connected for the charging system to work, and now it does.

And now I am back to the original problem, the expensive light show.

Any hints ya'll? Bad alternator? Bad voltage regulator?

I have a DC multi meter, and the factory diagrams on how to test charging system issues, just not sure what the readings will tell me.

I am working hard to have "Frank" ready for our wedding in early August, he was our engaement present to each other in place of a ring. (Yes, I do have a VERY special gal!)

Thanks again, and in advance for the expert assistance,

Patrick

[MountainMoparRobin]

I didn't read this earlier, so I apologize, after going through the 440 when putting it back together with the lightweight gear reduction starter I was able to get it started however some things didn't seem right and I knew I had a problem and when looking at the connection on the relay, (sometimes it just clicked) I accidently touched the brake lines and burnt my arm, the lines were so hot it actually burnt my arm, I then remembered someone on the forum having the same thing happen and remembered there was need for more ground. I had the engine to firewall body to frame already, so being a little confused I decided to add a ground from the front of the engine to the frame, I also added a ground from the bed to the frame, and have never had any corrosion on the relay, and never once has it not turned over or clicked

[Jeffc]

Lets start with testing what the alt is putting out
frist> how many volts output from the nutted
battery line on the alt> next, see what is coming to the batter, same test at the battery
on the + side.
Test at a idle and at around 1,000 rpms.
See if there is a differance in readings and
if so how much.

Max voltage should be around 13 to 14.5 voltage.

Then test with engine off at battery and
alt with engine/key off.

Then with key on, engine off.

see what you come up there and then we can go the
next step.

Some things you might also do, if you haven't,
is clean all fire wall plugs (both sides of fire wall)
and clean all fuse holders ( a little fine grite sand paper and screw driver to push it into the fuse holder and rub it around), and clean all grounding points.