Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Wiring, lights, heater controls, anything electrical..
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martincom
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Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

The battery and alternator bulkhead terminals are something that have plagued '60s and '70s Mopars. While these terminals were rated for up to 48 amps, that rating was under ideal conditions. While this terminal, in good condition, may have been able to accommodate the full output of a 40 amp alternator, it is inadequate for the 60amp and the near 80 amp reproduction units of the open finned style. More over, the addition of customer installed accessories such as Halogen headlights, trailer brake controllers, audio systems, and auxiliary heaters, to name a few, quickly surpassed this 48 amp rating of the connector and the 12 gauge wiring typically associated with the Alternator/amp meter wiring. When the current rating is exceeded, they become hot and melt the bulkhead shell.

The bulkhead connector terminals are unsealed. As such, the terminals will begin to oxidate/tarnish with time. Those in damp, harsh, environments will corrode. These factors further negatively impact the current capacity of the terminal. To the point that even a stock electrical load is more than they accommodate without overheating. As the connector's current handling ability decreases, the voltage drop across it increases. This voltage drop can and does impact a number of things. Even a minor voltage drop can cause aftermarket electronic ignitions to miss, especially at idle, or completely shutdown.

Some have bypassed the bulkhead all together as a remedy. This usually eliminates the functionality of the amp meter, as a side effect. More seriously, they often eliminate the fusible link and provide no replacement overcurrent protection. This exposes their vehicle to a fire hazard in the event of an alternator rectifier failure, damaged wiring in a wreck, or other conditions that will create an overcurrent, wire melting, condition.

Some point to the amp meter itself as an issue. To the contrary, the amp meter is very robust. As an example, we had a couple of late '70s stepvans with Ford chassis. With that, Ford instrument clusters. They had an amp meter, but as with nearly all Ford and GM vehicles with amp meters in that period, they were a shunt fed meter that never seemed to work and was nothing more than a dash ornament. A functioning amp meter was very important to us as we had high electrical loads in these trucks: halogen headlights, three heater blowers, 1000 watt inverters, multiple batteries, etc. When outfitting the trucks, we removed the Ford amp meter and replaced it with an inverted amp meter from a '70 B-body Mopar. It fit directly in the same place and the graphics were very close. Of course, this required a direct feed through connection. These Fords were equipped with 90 amp alternators and the Mopar gauge never failed nor indicated any signs of overheating.

My goal was to reinforce the bulkhead connections,increase the ampacity, and retain the amp meter. This could be accomplished in a number of methods. I finally decided on re-utilizing the factory wiring, in part, and continue to utilize the bulkhead as the feedthru point.

Bulkhead Connector

The bulkhead connector's far left cavity section is unused, in at least the later year sweptlines. It has spaces for eight terminal feedthrus. I would utilize four, in parallel, for the alternator connection and the other four to be used for the battery connection. While these terminals are rated for up to 48 amps, that is well beyond my comfort level for such. I'm more comfortable with 25 amps continuous and 30 amps intermittently. As such, this would yield a bulkhead through connection ampacity of 100 amps continuous and 120 amps intermittent.

Cab Wiring

The factory alternator and battery feeds are #12 gauge wire. While this might support intermittent loads of 40+ amps, it would have significant voltage drop. So the wiring will require an ampacity increase, as well. I gave some thought to replacing the alternator and battery wiring with #8. However, #8 can be difficult to work with and splices become quite large and unevenly contoured. As such,I decided to retain the factory #12 wiring and parallel it with #10. The combined ampacity of #12 and #10, in parallel, is actually a bit greater than #8.

I began on the cab side with partially removing the instrument cluster, fuseblock and bulkhead. My bulkhead shells and terminals were in good condition. I extracted the battery and alternator feeds from the bulkhead. With the female terminals being in good condition, I re-used them, squeezing the terminal rolls gently with a pliers to tighten their connection to the mating male terminal. A few inches back from the terminal, I stripped off a 1/2" or so of the insulation, without cutting the wire. I wrapped a matching color of #12 wire around the stripped area, soldered, and taped with quality Super 88 tape. I then trimmed the other end of the add-on #12 wires to match the length of the factory wires. I crimped and soldered, both, a female terminal to the end. I inserted these in the far left cavities with black alternator wires in the top four group and the red battery wires in the bottom four group.

As it is much easier to solder on the bench, I stripped back black #10 wire and two black #12 wires, soldering the two #12s, in parallel, to the #10. Considering the mass of these, I gently clamped the #10 in a vise and utilized a propane torch to heat the wires until they melted the solder. I cooled the connection with a wet paper towel. With aluminum protective jaw covers in place on the vise, I then squeezed the solder connection, in the vise, to flatten the joint contours, while rotating a few times between squeezes. Once somewhat smoothed, I re-heated the connection, with the propane torch, to re-flow the solder. This repaired solder connections that may been cracked or fatigued by the squeezing. Once cooled, I applied 5/16 heatshrink over the splice. I trimmed the #12 wires to within a few inches of the splice. I then crimped/soldered female terminals to each #12 wire. I repeated this process utilizing red wires.

Next, I inserted the #12 tails/terminals, of the #10 wires, into empty terminal locations of the corresponding bulkhead four terminal groups. I routed the #10 wires along the factory harness, tie wrapping to it, to the instrument cluster. I terminated the #10 wires on the amp meter studs along with the color matched factory wiring. I know have a #12 and #10, in parallel, from the bulkhead to the amp meter, for the alternator and battery feeds each.
Cab Side Bulkhead.jpg
Regulator Connections.jpg
Note: The circuit breakers mounted to the back side of the instrument cluster are for the trailer brake controller and the +12 volt auxiliary feed to the trailer connector. The appropriate location to obtain power, for these types of loads, would be the alternator stud of the amp meter. This would be a high current source. Suitable for such other items as halogen headlights and auxiliary heaters. Utilizing the battery as a source is problematic due to corroded connections, penetrating the firewall and the auxiliary load skews the accuracy of the amp meter.

Alternator Wiring

Again, I paralleled a #10 wire from the alternator to the bulkhead connectors. As it is easier to solder on the bench, I began soldering two #12 tails to the #10 wire and crimping/soldering the male terminals to each. I unplugged the engine harness from the bulkhead and released it from the firewall retaining clips. I could then bring the bulkhead end of the harness to the top of the right inner fender, making it much easier to work upon. I disconnected the #12 factory harness wire from the bullet connector just behind the bulkhead terminal. I cut off the bullet connector and soldered two #12 black wire tails to where the bullet connector had been attached, sealing this splice with 5/16 heatshrink. Male terminals were crimped/soldered to the other end of those tails. Those male terminals were inserted into the top four position plug for the far left bulkhead cavity. The male terminals, soldered to the #10 tails, were inserted into the two remaining positions.
Alt Bulkhead Connector.jpg
The #10 black wire was tie wrapped to the engine harness. The harness was re-hung in the firewall retainers.
Added Alt Wiring.jpg
A 1/4" ring terminal was soldered to the alternator end of the #10 wire and connected to the alternator output stud. I prefer to use un-insulated terminals and solder the wire to them when the connections is exposed to moisture. I use the insulated terminals in the cab and rely solely on the crimp. However, I test the mechanical connection of each crimp by attempting to pull the wire from the terminal. A good electrical connection begins with a good mechanical connection.
Added Alt Connection.jpg
Battery Wiring

The fusible link cannot be modified to accept the wire tails required with the four terminal bulkhead plug. Nor is its current capacity adequate for the increase in ampacity. I replaced the fusible link with a high amp, waterproof, circuit breaker. I chose the manually re settable type for two reasons:

1. If an overcurrent condition occurred, I did not desire the circuit breaker to continuously cycle through trip/reset cycles. This would still allow the wiring or device subject to the overcurrent condition to partially heat up.

2. This type of breaker was also manually trippable. This provides an easy means to disconnect the battery, for service, without actually having to remove the battery cable from the post.
High Amp Brkr.jpg
As the length of wiring required between the bulkhead connector and the high amp circuit breaker was short, it was more effective to do so with four strands of #12 wire. I stripped each strand and inserted all four into a 1/4" ring terminal and soldered. I insulated the end of the ring terminal with 3/8 heat shrink. I taped the four strands into a harness with quality Super88 tape. I crimped/soldered a male terminal to the tail of each strand.
Bulkhead to Circuit Brkr Wiring.jpg
I inserted the four male terminals into the plug that mated with the lower four terminals of the far left bulkhead cavity.
Bulkhead to Circuit Brkr Wiring2.jpg
Next, I fabricated a length of #8 wire to connect the high current circuit breaker to the starter relay, utilizing a 1/4 ring terminal on one end and a 5/16 ring terminal on the other.
Brkr to Start Relay Wiring.jpg
Finally, I installed the wiring between the high current circuit breaker and the starter relay.
Brkr to Start Relay Wiring2.jpg
Last edited by martincom on Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

Eng Side Bulkhead.jpg
Brkr Mntg.jpg
Bill of Materials

2989877 Aptiv 1/4 female terminal https://www.waytekwire.com/item/32031/A ... Terminal-/

2971859 Aptiv 1/4 male terminal https://www.waytekwire.com/item/32030/A ... Terminal-/

185060F-01-1 Bussmann 60A circuit breaker https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46981/E ... 1-Surface/
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

Excellent solution to the factory limitations. :Thumbsup
Sadly, this is only applicable to 69 and later trucks.
Earlier trucks have a totally different, and rudimentary, system of connectors. :pale

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

You could do the same thing with (Delphi) Aptiv 630 Series connectors. You'd need to add a grommet to the firewall for the wiring to pass thru. These are free hanging connectors. I'd probably utilize a four circuit connector for the alternator feed and another for the battery feed. The plus with this series of connector is they are sealed. The contacts are rated for up to 46 amps.

I used this series for my tractor cab. I have a JD 1025r compact tractor that I blow snow with amongst other things. Blowing snow without a cab is misery. However, the cab is in the way for most of the summer time projects. So I remove it in the spring. I utilized the 630 series for a wiring disconnect for the high current wiring and the 150 series for the low current. It has worked out well.

https://www.mouser.com/Aptiv/Connectors ... n0Z1z0zlez
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by 712edf »

Excellent work & write-up.

I never had an issues (yet) with stock system. My W600 only has headlights, wipers, heater blower for electric load. I don't drive it at night or in weather that would require lighting, nor in falling precipitation that would call for use of wipers. So that just leaves the blower motor which was already upgraded by previous owner. If I were to choose some upgrades I think first I would go with headlight relays, then do something like what you've done.

But since it's a Texas blizzard vehicle it doesn't get used enough for me to monkey with.

Bucky
1966 W500
1975 W600
1978 W200 club cab

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

I'd agree, if the stock configuration is in good condition, it'll be fine for you.

I was pondering adding relays for the headlights, but held off for now. I was thinking I wouldn't need them with LED headlights. I started to research LED headlights and found the lion's share of those being offered are junk, having very poor beam patterns. Any LED headlights that are worth a hoot were $500.00 for a pair!!!!

Like yourself, I don't drive much at night. I have a Hoppy optical head aligner. It works very well, far better than trying to align the bright spot on the wall. So the stock incandescents actually do a pretty decent job. I'm probably going to stay with them for the time being. Moving to Halogens would necessitate adding relays.
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by 712edf »

I have noticed all the headlight elements offered these days are made where the virus came from.

A W600 headlights are so high off the ground they're not much kilter. But then again the driver's seat is too.

Bucky
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1975 W600
1978 W200 club cab

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by swptln »

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:49 pm
Excellent solution to the factory limitations. :Thumbsup
Sadly, this is only applicable to 69 and later trucks.
Earlier trucks have a totally different, and rudimentary, system of connectors. :pale
Also, it's less of a problem with the 61-68 trucks as the wiring is a heavier gauge. Even with the different or as Terry mentioned rudimentary connectors.
69-71 lightened up or cheapened the wiring in the charging circuit. Up sizing the wire on the charging circuit in the 69-71's would be a better improvement.
You also need to understand....the manufacturers did not base the wiring size of conductors on a continuous load, it was based on a non-continuous load. If the system is working properly and not altered as mentioned the wire size and connectors would all be sufficient, but as we all know there aren't to many trucks out there that aren't altered.....thus overloading the system and or the components. Wiring terminations are the weakest link in any electrical system and have a temperature rating far less than the wire insulation temperature rating, sometimes as much as 30 degrees. These are a major problem with any electrical circuit and requires what is called de-rating a conductor for a circuit for both temperature class and continuous load.
Mark D.

61-71 Dodge Truck Association
http://www.sweptlinesunlimited.com


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1969 D100 Utiline
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by swptln »

Cab Wiring

The factory alternator and battery feeds are #12 gauge wire. While this might support intermittent loads of 40+ amps, it would have significant voltage drop. So the wiring will require an ampacity increase, as well. I gave some thought to replacing the alternator and battery wiring with #8. However, #8 can be difficult to work with and splices become quite large and unevenly contoured. As such,I decided to retain the factory #12 wiring and parallel it with #10. The combined ampacity of #12 and #10, in parallel, is actually a bit greater than #8.
In order to parallel wires, they need to be the same size. The resistance values of conductors are different, running a #12 and #10 in parallel is no better than running 2-#12's and you will never be able to utilize the ampacity of the #10 as the #12 will fail before the #10. When running parallel conductors you need to do a calculation based on the short-time rating of a conductor. If you don't, the smaller conductor is always going to fail before the larger and prolong the failure or create extensive damage to components.
So basically without getting overly technical as an example:
Given,
#12 has a rating of 20A
#10 has a rating of 30A
The most the circuit or parallel conductors can handle is 40A, based on the smaller conductor amperage rating.
If you put 50A on the circuit, the circuit would evenly divide the amperage to 25A at first, but the #12 is now over loaded and will begin to fail as the #12 fails or deteriorates the #10 is going to become overloaded as well.
Just as an FYI or point of interest, parallel conductors should be equal in all aspects in the circuit:
Equal length
Equal AWG
Equal terminations
Equal insulation
Equal alloy
Mark D.

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http://www.sweptlinesunlimited.com


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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by swptln »

swptln wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:20 pm
Cab Wiring

The factory alternator and battery feeds are #12 gauge wire. While this might support intermittent loads of 40+ amps, it would have significant voltage drop. So the wiring will require an ampacity increase, as well. I gave some thought to replacing the alternator and battery wiring with #8. However, #8 can be difficult to work with and splices become quite large and unevenly contoured. As such,I decided to retain the factory #12 wiring and parallel it with #10. The combined ampacity of #12 and #10, in parallel, is actually a bit greater than #8.
In order to parallel wires, they need to be the same size. The resistance values of conductors are different, running a #12 and #10 in parallel is no better than running 2-#12's and you will never be able to utilize the ampacity of the #10 as the #12 will fail before the #10. When running parallel conductors you need to do a calculation based on the short-time rating of a conductor. If you don't, the smaller conductor is always going to fail before the larger and prolong the failure or create extensive damage to components.
So basically without getting overly technical as an example:
Given,
#12 has a rating of 20A
#10 has a rating of 30A
The most the circuit or parallel conductors can handle is 40A, based on the smaller conductor amperage rating.
If you put 50A on the circuit, the circuit would evenly divide the amperage to 25A at first, but the #12 is now over loaded and will begin to fail as the #12 fails or deteriorates the #10 is going to become overloaded as well.
Just as an FYI or point of interest, parallel conductors should be equal in all aspects in the circuit:
Equal length
Equal AWG
Equal terminations
Equal insulation
Equal alloy
I made a mistake in my post referring that the load or current would be half the load on each conductor. This would only be true on a AC circuit, sorry for the confusion and I apologize.

I will say this though, running parallel conductors of any sort on a DC circuit will reduce the current on the individual wires run in parallel, but it will be more than half of the load.
Running parallel conductors will actually increases the overall current in the circuit. The reason for this, running conductors in parallel is like adding resistors in parallel on a series circuit. Although, this maybe getting over everybody's head or theory knowledge. Trust me you don't want to to do this on an automotive DC circuit. All automotive circuits are either a basic series circuit or parallel circuits, you do not want to create what is called a series-parallel circuit, installing these parallel wires through the bulkhead fitting is doing just that.
If the wiring is not adequate for the load or circuit, the correct way to fix or increase the amperage of the circuit is to increase the wire size as a single conductor not parallel.
I'd be interested to see what your amp gauge in the cab reads vs the load on the #8 between the breaker and starter relay, because the amperage on the individual wires between the alternator and your breaker should be more than half of the amperage on the #8.
Mark D.

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http://www.sweptlinesunlimited.com


1968 W200 Sweptline
1969 D100 Utiline
1993 D250 Club Cab

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

Mark, 2 smaller wires in parallel will be less total resistance, but 1 larger wire will also be less total resistance. So what's the problem?
The "load" is what is connected to those feed wires and its resistance doesn't change. If you feed it with a zero ohm wire (theoretically), you will get all the supplied voltage dropped across the load and none dropped on the feed wire. That's the perfect world. No voltage drop on the wire, no heating of the wire, full bright headlights, full speed blower motor, etc.

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by swptln »

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:09 pm
Mark, 2 smaller wires in parallel will be less total resistance, but 1 larger wire will also be less total resistance. So what's the problem?
The "load" is what is connected to those feed wires and its resistance doesn't change. If you feed it with a zero ohm wire (theoretically), you will get all the supplied voltage dropped across the load and none dropped on the feed wire. That's the perfect world. No voltage drop on the wire, no heating of the wire, full bright headlights, full speed blower motor, etc.
The problem is, with all those parallel wires in a DC circuit, it actually increases the load on the total circuit. Each one of those conductors added in parallel is adding resistance to the circuit. Even though you are diverting or reducing the load on each wire individually, your creating or increasing the load on the circuit back at the source. The actual load on 2 parallel wires will be higher than on a single wire....the load will be divided, but will be more than half of the actual load on a single wire.
That is where I overlooked the circuit, with an AC circuit this doesn't happen and the load get's divided equally across the wires in parallel. With a DC circuit, this doesn't happen.
In this case the battery is the load on the circuit and the alternator is the source. This is a simple DC series circuit.
So from the source the battery would be the only thing in series on the circuit, now we add all those parallel conductors into the circuit and they actually become parallel loads between the source and the load. So we have created a series-parallel circuit.
All be it, they may be small loads, but they are loads and will increase the over all load on the charging circuit.

My point is we are trying eliminate load on the charging circuit, adding loads doesn't seem to be a good idea.
I'd also like to see how it works when he's got the vehicle running and what kind of amp readings he's getting at the amp gauge and whether or not the amp gauge see's those parallel wires as a load, if it does......my thinking is it will always show a charging state and never go to zero even if the battery is up to charge.
Maybe I'm wrong, but would like to see his results when it's running.
Mark D.

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

Mark, I read your posts in regards to this thread. While I wouldn't have utilized the term "de-rating" in the context you did in your first post, I agree with your conclusions in broad strokes. Conductor de-rating is utilized to protect the insulation from degrading from the impacts of temperature. In a structure, where wiring is typically contained within some form of protective enclosure which limits heat dissipation, this is certainly a concern. However, in this application, degradation to a conductor's insulation from the heat generated by the current carrying conductor is by far displaced by the heat of the engine compartment. Your comment "These are a major problem with any electrical circuit and requires what is called de-rating a conductor for a circuit for both temperature class and continuous load." is barely relevant to the topic and only serves to confuse the reader who is not knowledgeable in this area.

I don't know how to politely state it, but your second post has little basis in fact. The conductors do not need to be equal in any or all factors. You are correct, a #10 wire has less resistance than a #12. As such, it will carry more current if the voltage applied across the two is equal. This is proven by Ohm's Law. Your conclusion, in your example, that the current flow would be equal in the two conductors is wrong. Again, this is proven by Ohm's Law. Ohm's Law is blind to conductor sizing factors and length. The National Electric Code (NEC) does require parallel conductors to be equal. However, the NEC only allows parallel conductors when the conductor size exceeds 1/0. It is simply not practical to parallel smaller conductors in applications governed by the NEC. The primary reason the NEC requires they be equal are safety considerations that are not relevant to an automotive application.

Ohm's Law states: Volts = Amps x Ohms

Below is a simplified illustration of a 60 amp load connected to a 12 volt source by a #10 and #12 conductor in parallel, both 10' long---though unequal lengths would not make a difference in the purpose of this example.
60A-2 diagram.jpg
1. Let's determine the total current on the 12 volt source utilizing Ohm's Law. To do so, we need to determine the total resistance. As we have two conductors in parallel, we need to determine they're combined resistance utilizing the formula for parallel resistance: 1/r1 + 1/r2 = 1/rt
1/0.0118 + 1/0.0187 = 1/138.22 = 0.00723 ohms
0.00723 + 0.200ohms = 0.20723 ohms

As demonstrated in the calculations above, the total resistance the 12 volt source is applied across is 0.20723 ohms. Utilizing Ohm's Law, we'll divide the 12 volts source by the 0.20723 ohm load to obtain the total current from the 12 volt source:

12volts / 0.20723 ohms = 57.907 amps

2. Next,let's determine the voltage drop across across the 0.200 ohm resistance, again, utilizing Ohm's Law:

57.907 amps x 0.200 ohms = 11.581 volts

3. Likewise, we can determine the voltage drop across the #10 and #12 conductors in parallel by subtracting our previous answer from the 12 volts source:

12 volts - 11.581 volts = 0.419 volts

4. Now, we can determine the current flow through the #12 conductor alone, again, utilizing Ohm's Law:

0.419 volts / 0.0187 ohms = 22.406 amps

5. Finally, the current flow through the #10 conductor:

0.419 volts / 0.0118 ohms = 35.508 amps

6. We can check our individual conductor current flows by adding them together and comparing them to our previous total current calculation:

22.406 amps + 35.508 amps = 57.914 amps compared to 57.907 amps. The difference is from my only carry calculation results to the third most significant digit right of the decimal point.

As we have proven our conclusion that that both of the parallel conductors will carry current by Ohm's Law application, we can also see the ratio of the current flow between the two is equal to the ratio of the resistance between the two, as well.

Your ampacity limits of conductors #10 and #12 are incorrect. I'm going to speculate you are confusing this with maximum overcurrent device protection limits set forth in Section 240.4(D) of the NEC. Many variables will come into play with an automotive determination, such as duty cycle, in which you touched upon in your first post. Length, whether bundled or not, the type of bundling, insulation ratings, etc. will also be factors. Your ampacity values are extremely and overly conservative.
Last edited by martincom on Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

swptln wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:17 am
Maybe I'm wrong, but would like to see his results when it's running.
Here's a simple "running" test. Use a scrap of small gauge wire or small gauge test clip cord and connect it across a battery cable. Disconnect the coil wire to prevent it from starting and provide a prolonged cranking period. According to your statements, the current flow will be equal in the battery cable and the small gauge wire added, in parallel, across it for this test. Engage the starter for 20 seconds. If the current flow was equal, as you insist,the small gauge wire just glowed cherry red until it burned open. In reality, it was not damaged in the least.
1*1971 D100 318 A/T
1*1970 Charger R/T 440-6PK A/T
2*1969 Daytona Charger 440 A/T
1*1969 Coronet R/T awaiting restoration
1*1969 Torino Talladega awaiting restoration

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

martincom wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:57 pm
..........22.406 amps + 35.508 amps = 57.914 amps compared to 57.907 amps. The difference is from my only carry calculation results to the third most significant digit left of the decimal point.....
Don't you mean "right" of the decimal point?

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martincom
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

I sure do. Thanks for the heads up. I corrected it.
1*1971 D100 318 A/T
1*1970 Charger R/T 440-6PK A/T
2*1969 Daytona Charger 440 A/T
1*1969 Coronet R/T awaiting restoration
1*1969 Torino Talladega awaiting restoration

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

martincom wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:57 pm
......Your ampacity limits of conductors #10 and #12 are incorrect. I'm going to speculate you are confusing this with maximum overcurrent device protection limits set forth in Section 240.4(D) of the NEC. Many variables will come into play with an automotive determination, such as duty cycle, in which you touched upon in your first post. Length, whether bundled or not, the type of bundling, insulation ratings, etc. will also be factors. Your ampacity values are extremely and overly conservative.
Ampacity limits of wire in the NEC also factor in much higher voltages. The wattage dissipated by the wire is the critical component.
P=EI
In the calculation cited, the wattage (heat) generated on the #12 wire would be .419V x 22.406A = 9.388W.
If you applied 120V to the same circuit (typical house voltage), rather than the 12V in automotive applications, that same #12 wire would be dissipating 10x as much heat - 93.88W
In simple terms, a 10w light bulb won't melt insulation and start a fire, but a 100W light bulb will.

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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by swptln »

I didn't and I repeat "I didn't make any reference to the NEC as you may think". It was just an example, nothing more. I also stated in my last response I was thinking AC not DC when I made the reference to the amperage dividing equally on the conductors. Obviously, you didn't read my last post and your reading the previous ones.
Your missing the point here with a DC circuit, running parallel conductors, although it drops the actual amperage on each of the conductors individually that are run in parallel, it increases the overall load on the circuit.
You don't even have to use ohms law and a calculation to figure this one out. Every wire has a resistance value based on it's circular mils and length, I think we all agree on that.
Cutting into any circuit of any size at any given point and adding multiple wires in parallel is adding resistance to the existing circuit, therefore increasing the overall load of the circuit. If you want to do a calculation, you first have to figure out the resistance of the multiple wires as a single resistance, then add it to the resistance of the existing wire before you can calculate the load, this puts them in series. You can't figure the load/amperage of a circuit until the circuit is a simple series circuit. Your also missing the fact that your only calculating the resistance of the parallel conductors, not the existing conductors resistance in the circuit. Your diagram and calculation is incorrect and not accurate, because your not taking into account for the resistance of the single wire going to the load and the single wire from the source to the parallel junction, nor did you calculate the parallel resistance correctly.

Just as an example: This is not accurate in reality for the numbers, but the theory is dead on.
55W load on the circuit.
Given that a #12 wire has a resistance of 10 ohms at 20' long, as an example only.
We add 2 12" sections of #12 to go through the bulkhead conductor = .5 ohms per wire.

Now we have to do a calculation based on Ohms Law, the correct way: .5 x .5 = .25, .5 +.5 = 1, .25/1 = .25 ohms of resistance just for the 2 parallel #12 wires.
Now we can take 10 ohms + .25 ohm = 10.25 ohms.
Now we can take 10.25 ohms or 12V / 10.25 = 1.17A
55W / 12V = 4.58A + 1.17A = 5.75A total.
If we run just a single 21' #12 wire of 10.5 ohms, 12V / 10.5 ohms = 1.14A
4.58A + 1.14A = 5.72A.
By adding just 2 of those conductors to the circuit, you just increased the load by .03A to the that circuit.
Although it doesn't sound like much, it is in fact increasing the load on the circuit. This also doesn't take into account the #10 and #12 you ran in parallel either, this is only for one 1/4 of the bulkhead connector.

I'd be willing to bet, if you put a amp gauge on those parallel wires and record the individual values of each one, your going to have more amperage on those 4 wires than you have on that single #8 from the breaker to the starter relay. I'd also be willing to bet if you ran a single #10 or #12 from the alternator to the amp gauge and directly to the breaker and take a amperage reading it will be far less, than your parallel system. JMO
Mark D.

61-71 Dodge Truck Association
http://www.sweptlinesunlimited.com


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martincom
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Re: Reinforcing Alt/Batt Bulkhead, Increase Ampacity, Retain Amp Meter

Post by martincom »

Let's just agree to disagree, Mark.
1*1971 D100 318 A/T
1*1970 Charger R/T 440-6PK A/T
2*1969 Daytona Charger 440 A/T
1*1969 Coronet R/T awaiting restoration
1*1969 Torino Talladega awaiting restoration

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