Engine turns over, but wont start

[Drummerdad]

I am in the middle of this rebuild, and I decided to try and start the truck. Its not ready to drive yet, but it would be nice to check all the lines and fittings for leaks and see how it sounds. I had the truck running almost 2 years ago, but then we took it apart because the frame was scrap. So I put everything back, and it wont start. Heres what I have done-

Truck is a 67 d100, with a 318 (LA) and a NP435.
I have 6+ volts at the coil+ with ignition on.
I have 12 volts at the large battery terminal on the starter relay. The truck turns over fine. Lights work, etc...
Both the "G" and the "I" posts on the relay ring to ground (I think this is wrong) with or without the neutral jumper in.
I had the neutral safety switch installed, but it doesnt seem to matter. I replaced it with a jumper, the truck turns over, but wont start. Take the jumper out, the truck still turns over but wont start. (I think this is wrong also)
I have poured gas straight into the carb, so it has fuel enough to at least burp on me.

I have a ron francis wiring kit, so it isnt exactly like factory. But the starter circuit and ignition circuit should be similar. I also had the distributor out, and had to reinstall it. I turned the engine over by hand installing the clutch, and so I had to completely re-time the distributor. I checked online for how to do it, and I am pretty confident its timed right.

[Drummerdad]

I also just checked a few other things-

I have checked the relay, and the "G" and "I" and the "SOL" all ring to ground. And with the switch in the on position, there is no voltage anywhere, except the big terminal which goes to the battery.

I also changed the ballast resistor, with no change.

Plus I might need to add, it has electronic ignition, so no points. The orange ignition box is new, and it was in when we started it last time, which was a long time ago.

[MikeM]

I didnt see you mentioned this but the first thing I would do is check for spark. My guess is u r not getting spark. If u r getting spark then I would verify it is timed correctly. Good luck
MikeM

[Drummerdad]

Thank you. I dont have a way to do that safely, but Im buying one this week. Ill check for spark then. I think Im not getting spark as well.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

Put your timing light on the plug wire, crank the engine, if the light flashes, u have spark at that wire.

[Drummerdad]

I thought about that and didnt know if it would work because I also need to test the coil wire. I know it makes me sound like an idiot, but I have never used a timing light. I used to be into aircooled volkwagens and you could set the timing without a light on them, and most other cars have coil over plug. My charger doesnt even have plug wires. I have seen a timing light used, but just never needed to use one, until now. I do have one, and I will try that. I also have a spark tester on the way.

So, if I have spark at the coil and wires, then its my timing that is off. But if I dont, something is wrong elsewhere causing the coil to not fire.

[712edf]

IF you have spark & fuel, you will GET an explosion, even if its at the wrong time. You can tell just by the sound.

I too suspect no spark.

Bucky

[PwrWgnDrvr]

You can put the timing light on the coil wire and it will flash 8x as fast!

[67step100]

Seems relevant so thought I would post it.
https://classicmotorsports.com/articles ... tion+Email

[dodgeboykim]

I had the neutral safety switch installed, but it doesnt seem to matter. I replaced it with a jumper, the truck turns over, but wont start. Take the jumper out, the truck still turns over but wont start. (I think this is wrong also)

A standard transmission truck does not have a neutral safety switch. That is for your back up/reverse lights.
Are you still using points and if yes, Do they (the points) spark when engine turns over. No spark. Points problem.
Spark at points then do plugs have spark.

[Drummerdad]

I had the neutral safety switch installed, but it doesnt seem to matter. I replaced it with a jumper, the truck turns over, but wont start. Take the jumper out, the truck still turns over but wont start. (I think this is wrong also)

A standard transmission truck does not have a neutral safety switch. That is for your back up/reverse lights.
Are you still using points and if yes, Do they (the points) spark when engine turns over. No spark. Points problem.
Spark at points then do plugs have spark.

So, the truck had an auto, and when it ran it was with an auto. Fast forward about 2-1/2 years, and its now a manual. I got the NP435 from the parts truck, it has a reverse light switch that works great. I made a shorting clip/jumper for the safety switch, which should be the same thing. I plan on making it into a clutch switch, so it wont start without the clutch in. Im also going to run it through a hidden switch that has to be pushed to start.

Also, no points. The truck was converted to digital ignition by the previous owner. It ran fine after wiring, and we discovered the bad frame. Everything was pulled back to remove the cab, but it was all left in place.

[712edf]

Is the orange ignition box mounted properly to a fender/firewall? It has to be grounded, or at least one of the pins does.

Have you hotwired the coil directly to the battery to see if it'll fire then? If that works then you can eliminate your timing & secondary ignition system as the culprit.

Bucky

[dodgeboykim]

Are you using the standard trans starter relay or automatic one.

[Drummerdad]

Ill try and answer some questions-

The orange box is mounted properly, and grounded. It is exactly where it was when it ran before. I didnt remove it.

I did hotwire the coil, and it didnt work. I do have about 6 volts on the + side, and about 1.5-ish on the -.

I am using the 4 post (maybe its called a two post?) relay for an auto, and I have a manual. But I thought the difference was the extra post was for the neutral safety switch, which has been shorted (it acts exactly the same with or without the shorting wire). The relay has 12 volts on the large lug, and the other three posts are shorted to ground, all the time. Will this relay stop the truck from turning over, or will it stop the ignition spark? The truck turns over great, it just wont start.

I got my ignition tester in today, but I had too many things to do to get to it and verify the lack of spark. I might try it tomorrow before church. Ill try it on a plug or two and the coil.

[712edf]

The starter relay only effects cranking, not ignition spark.

If you have sufficient power at the coil but not getting the plugs to fire, then the trouble is the coil itself, the ECM or the distributor/wires/plugs. You want 12 volts at the coil WHILE cranking, then about 6 when the key is in RUN position (engine running or not).

Even if the timing is way off, it will still fire (actually backfire) if you have spark + fuel.

Bucky

[PwrWgnDrvr]

...I do have about 6 volts on the + side, and about 1.5-ish on the -......

You need to measure voltage at the coil WHILE CRANKING. That takes 2 people, a clip on voltmeter or a remote starter switch.
If you are measuring voltage with key on, but not cranking, that tells you nothing about why it won't fire.

[Drummerdad]

...I do have about 6 volts on the + side, and about 1.5-ish on the -......

You need to measure voltage at the coil WHILE CRANKING. That takes 2 people, a clip on voltmeter or a remote starter switch.
If you are measuring voltage with key on, but not cranking, that tells you nothing about why it won't fire.

Ok Ill try that. Itll be a few days. We are in a cold spell here, and its been very cold in the garage. Ill post my results.

I did get my spark tester, and it is sparking on the plug I checked, so....Im confused. All I can think is I didnt put enough gas in it, and the timing is way off. Ill re-check the timing, and measure coil voltage while cranking this weekend hopefully.

[marklein]

Find a schematic of the orange box, make sure it's right. Buy yourself a coil that is good for constant 12v, toss the ballast, it was an old idea that was designed to keep points alive, without the points, an 8v coil is a detriment. Check your base timing, the slot in the distributor drive angles to the front ds bolt on the intake on the compression stroke. Then make sure your rotor points to number 1. It could be the orange box, I've heard they're not what they once were. Make sure the coil gets 12v while cranking, should get 12 while cranking then the ballst cuts it back to 8 or so while running. It's easy to get tunnel vision and miss easy things, I once had issues getting a 318 running, started right up once I put the rotor in the distributor.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

... started right up once I put the rotor in the distributor.

....favorite trick in HS years to mess up your buddy's ride....or put a clamp on the rubber fuel line somewhere....would run long enough for the bride and groom to start pulling into the street from the church parking lot

[BigBlockTrucks]

Or you could pull the distributor cap and draw a bunch of lines with a pencil between the towers