No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

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No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby riffraff » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:52 pm

First time I've had an issue with my charging system. I've not reading any ammeter changes, and I'm not charging. I do have battery voltage at the alternator post, but no voltage increase at the post while revving. Looks like my wiring was changed to heavier gage, but still like the upper diagram (and no fuse links). Anyway, no amp readings (lights on/off, etc) and no charging. Truck starts and runs fine, otherwise. I did replace my ignition switch a couple months ago, but didn't notice any issues.

Ideas on what to check?

Thanks!

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Last edited by riffraff on Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading

Postby riffraff » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:18 pm

Just pulled the dash apart and near as I can tell, it looks like the upper diagram, with heavier wire. Wired with 8ga from the the alternator direct to the ammeter and also 8ga from the ignition relay to the ammeter. There is also a 16ga, or so, wire going to the same "charge" side of the ammeter as does the alternator. No additional wire to the "discharge" side of the ammeter.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby 712edf » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:07 pm

I am not familiar with 60's systems, but I suspect the ammeter itself has become "open", meaning no current is flowing through it.
Easiest way to tell is to disconnect the wires to it & check for continuity between the 2 posts with an Ohmmeter.

Sorry that I can't be of more help.

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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby PwrWgnDrvr » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:08 pm

Check the regulator too.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby MadMC63 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:09 am

I believe you will find this RamchargerCentral post helpful.

http://ramchargercentral.com/electrical ... ng-system/
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby riffraff » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:11 am

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to wire around the ammeter first and see what that gets me, swap the regulator next.

Per the diagram, seems I shouldn't have power to the rest of the truck, if the ammeter were open. And if the it were just the ammeter open, seems I should still read some output on the alternator, itself.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby 712edf » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:35 pm

riffraff wrote:Thanks for the replies. I'm going to wire around the ammeter first and see what that gets me, swap the regulator next.

Per the diagram, seems I shouldn't have power to the rest of the truck, if the ammeter were open. And if the it were just the ammeter open, seems I should still read some output on the alternator, itself.

I think the ammeter has power to BOTH sides, one from the alt (if its working) & the other side from the Batt. Ammeter indicates/measures direction of flow (Alt>Batt = Charge, Batt>Alt = Discharge) and amount/rate of flow. On 70's trucks an open ammeter prevents alternator from charging Battery I think. I may be incorrect though.
Yes you should be able to read output on alternator itself regardless of ammeter functioning.

I think you have the right plan, bypass ammeter then swap regulator.

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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby PwrWgnDrvr » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:39 pm

Ammeter is fine. It is telling u the system isn't working. Most likely regulator, but can be alternator too.
Test by running a wire from the battery + terminal to alternator field lug. If ammeter does not show a massive charge, then the alternator is bad. If it does, then the regulator is bad.

Not sure how the hacks to the original wiring would affect this, since I only see half of the schematic. I dont consider the hacks an "upgrade".
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby 712edf » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:41 pm

MadMC63 wrote:I believe you will find this RamchargerCentral post helpful.

http://ramchargercentral.com/electrical ... ng-system/

Good post!

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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby riffraff » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:56 pm

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:Ammeter is fine. It is telling u the system isn't working. Most likely regulator, but can be alternator too.
Test by running a wire from the battery + terminal to alternator field lug. If ammeter does not show a massive charge, then the alternator is bad. If it does, then the regulator is bad.

Not sure how the hacks to the original wiring would affect this, since I only see half of the schematic. I dont consider the hacks an "upgrade".

Good call :salut

I wired around the regulator, as you suggested, and the ammeter jumped..yay!

I was getting thrown that the ammeter wasn't showing a discharge. I think even with the bad VR, as the current is still passing through the ammeter to the accessories, it should show a neg reading.

But, I think I have that figured out now, which goes to your point of questionable "upgrades." There was an additional solenoid added for a trailer supply, and the original ammeter lead at the bulkhead (#16), is jumped to the hot post of the solenoid. Not sure I would ever show a discharge, as wired. There is a smaller lead on the alternator side of the VR. No idea what that is feeding, but that is probably the only thing that will force a discharge reading--assuming it is wired to something.

As to the simple diagram I posted above (which I pulled from this site), in looking at it closer, the lower "upgrade" sample, maybe close to how mine is wired, is pretty much useless, and would allow charging/discharging in a loop around the ammeter.

The below is the 1969 factory schematic, in case anyone following this thread in the future needs help:

http://www.sweptline.com/tech/69wire.jpg

That my VR looks newish, suggests it's been a problem in the past. I went ahead and ordered a electronic "look-alike" VR, from ebay, below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Voltage-R ... Mi&vxp=mtr

Thanks for everyone's input!
Last edited by riffraff on Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby riffraff » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:42 pm

Good discussion of the proper upgrade in this thread. Looks like terminals #16 and #27 should have been jumped, in my case. Going to have to see if my under-dash wiring has been buggered much.

Edit: trying to figure out what good the depicted 16 to 27 jumper is. Seems it would just bypass the ammeter (like I have now). Hum.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34877&hilit=charging&start=20

Pic of the upgrade:

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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby 712edf » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:53 pm

Every Dodge I ever owned seems to have had the wiring boogered up by a previous owner.

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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby coelcanth » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:13 am

i recently had a problem with my charging system and it turned out to be the rectifier diodes in the alternator itself.

the nice thing about it all was that i could visually diagnose the problem because the part was physically broken apart,
and my local alternator shop had the parts on the shelf to fix it up.
i was able to rebuild myself and get back on the road in about an hour.

these guys have lots of rebuild and upgrade parts for our charging systems too:
http://store.alternatorparts.com/daimlerchrysler.aspx

looks like you still have the original style round back alternator and mechanical regulator installed.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby my5thmopar » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:53 am

Upgrade to an electronic regulator. I got one on fleabag in the old style case. Voltage is rock study. Craig
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby riffraff » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:24 pm

my5thmopar wrote:Upgrade to an electronic regulator. I got one on fleabag in the old style case. Voltage is rock study. Craig

Yep, that's exactly what I've ordered. Once it's up and charging, I'm going to figure out the previous owner's hack.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby pwadventurer » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:26 pm

riffraff wrote:Good discussion of the proper upgrade in this thread. Looks like terminals #16 and #27 should have been jumped, in my case. Going to have to see if my under-dash wiring has been buggered much.

Edit: trying to figure out what good the depicted 16 to 27 jumper is. Seems it would just bypass the ammeter (like I have now). Hum.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34877&hilit=charging&start=20

Pic of the upgrade:

It looks to me like the Red 27 wire from the ammeter feeds the fuse link into 16 block. This protects the circuit that feeds the splice and onto the fuse block and ammeter. What's not shown in the FSM is the Black # 16 wire from the splice going onto the other side of the ammeter. If the black 16 wire does go onto the ammeter there would be a small amount of current flowing through the ammeter. Without it there, no current flow through it. What do you think?
70 dodge alternator adaptation_zpsmuwf9pqa.JPG
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby pwadventurer » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:47 pm

Seems to me Dodge fell short in the alternate wiring adaptation in the FSM. Instead of putting the fuse link between the 27/16 block (which is quick and easy), they should have put it between the alternator charge side of the ammeter terminal and the black # 16 wire to the splice and fuse block.(in series with).This would have eliminated all 27/16 load problems with those terminal connections at the firewall.
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Re: No Charging, No Amp Reading 1969 W100

Postby PwrWgnWalt » Mon May 29, 2017 12:03 am

For anyone else reading this post, see the following link, Topic #9
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34977

The factory-used alternator-ammeter wiring is a great system, as is depicted above. :study
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1969 W200: Crewcab, yellow, 440/435 4-speed, pb, short Utiline box, HD Dana 44 (front), Dana 60 (rear) 4.88 gears
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1969 D100: Adventurer, medium blue, LA-318/727
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