Power Steering Assist Mystery

Suspension, Brakes, Tires, Wheels steeringetc..
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DingBat
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Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

Group,

So in my truck - viewtopic.php?f=34&t=36978
In my thread here I show a picture of the ram-assist cylinder, and the pump and remote reservoir, what I do not show, but intend to upload tomorrow, is a picture of the shuttle valve - which is the key element here, more on that later.
I have what my dad thinks is a Warn Ram assist - I no longer believe this to be true. Although he said he rebuilt the cylinder and the shuttle valve and he sourced the parts from Warn - but this would have been in the late 80's, so his memory that far back ... I don't doubt he rebuilt the system, I just don't think Warn had anything to do with it.

Now- I think I might have some valuable info for ya'all researching these little-known ram-assist systems found in our sweptlines.

Exhibit A -
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=27245
this excellent thread on here detailing the rebuild is among several instances I have found that leads me to believe that when Dodge started offering the power-assist, it was with a Bendix Style shuttle valve. I have yet to see an instance of a known OEM Dodge with a Garrison Valve.
Can anyone here confirm whether Dodge ever shipped OEM Garrison style Valves?

Now -it is known Ford used both Bendix and Garrison style valves, and this page clearly shows the difference between the two.
http://www.stangerssite.com/TruckCVparts.html

So here's my mystery - My truck clearly has a Garrison Valve. Not only that, but it is configured differently than the Ford unit shown on the page above. The "left" side shown in the picture shows some sort of coupler instead of the threaded rod-end for a ball-joint shown like on the right side of the valve assembly. ....Mine has threaded rods on both sides, and ball joints on both sides. ?????????? :thinking

Also - I have yet to see ANY system that has a remote reservoir that looks like mine. Not on Sweptlines, not on Fords .... nothing.

My dad says the rebuild of our system went so far as to put a new bronze gear-set inside of the factory gear box as well. So although it has sat for 10+ years, my truck has a completely rebuilt steering system with less than 20k miles on it. ....but knowing that replacement parts will be unicorn tears....

I want to put modern disc brakes on my truck. Period. I also want to put a hydro boost brake system on while I do. I have no problem putting a high-volume power steering pump to support this.

The question is, do I run the set-up I have, and do like an Ugly -Truckling style disc brake conversion to my closed knuckle D44 ....?

Or swap to an entirely new axle, with disc brakes, and a completely modern steering box. ??? If I do this I will most likely go to cross-over steering an a Chevy K30 gear box, my boss actually has a HD 8-lug D44, with the larger 11" brakes, completely rebuild, with the correct 4.10 gears, sitting behind his house, so I have an axle basically ready-to-go .....

I just like the old closed-knuckle kingpin axles, and knowing how rare and semi-desirable these old power-assist units are, it seems a shame to lose it.

Any knowledge, thoughts, or musings would be appreciated on the subject. I will take pictures of my Garrison Style valve tonight and post them to both this thread, and my build thread.

DingBat
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

aha,

Well, more scouring and I answered (I think) two of the questions -

1- here is the double-threaded end garrison valve,
http://www.straightlinesteering.com/Con ... inders.htm
Scroll down just a bit, #3.

2- ....which says this was offered on Dodge ....


However, now I have another mystery, NOT ONE of the cylinders shown on this page look like mine.

What in the heck do I have here?

FWIW - mine is definitely not a shade-tree mechanic job either, the mount on the cross-link is a very nice casting with dual u-bolts and the tapered ball joint fitting, and while you can't see it clearly in my pic the other end cylinder mount on the axle tube is also a very nice cast unit, with a reverse-rake and another ball joint. NOT a simple double-shear clevice mount on either side.

:thinking

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soopernaut
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by soopernaut »

I have never come across anything that states there was ever power steering available in a W100,W200 or W300 truck. There was a SERT number for power steering on some W500 trucks, but would have been considered special equipment. Who knows what the source for the parts was.

There are 10 different part numbers for the power steering unit valve in the 63-68 parts book.

Image

DingBat
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

oh, good info, thanks for the page!!

so mine is a "6 man cab" (crew cab)

but a W200, not a D200 - hmmm... :thinking

So it *might* be a 2237 186 control valve, which makes it a 2227 704 housing.

Ok, well, I just got off the phone with Mark @ Straightline steering inc. Good guy. the website I found for the Garrison Valve.

He had a lot of good info. He said his "book" did not even list a Dodge 4x4 in 1966, go figure, BUT he asked me about the joint between mt steering column and gearbox, if it has an "upside down sheet metal bell" - then in is the same gear box used in the 2x4's. Which he thinks it is.

Also - he said he has seen these systems on trucks, as OEM, in the past. His words "these systems were available as options on the trucks prior to 1969, but they were very expensive and rare."

He said they can still rebuild both the garrison and bendix valves, and the cylinders.

He said he has helped people install more modern gear boxes into our trucks as well, but the input shaft ends up basically inside the cab of the truck, and the hydraulic lines run right along the firewall, less than ideal.

He actually seemed to think my truck has this as OEM equipment, partly because of the quality of the install, partly because of the remote reservoir, and partly because the truck was shipped with so many other options. but he can't say for sure.

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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

If its not in the FSM, it wasn't OEM, unless listed on the SERT.

DingBat
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:If its not in the FSM, it wasn't OEM, unless listed on the SERT.
That's what I thought as well, but what about a Dealership Install?

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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by digdoug »

Yes, dealer install. The Garrison valve was used on the W series and Med duty D series.They were also used on early Travco motorhomes.
I sold all of my sweptline trucks,except the invisible one. I just couldn't stand to see it go!
( )
91w350 CTD
93w250 CTD

DingBat
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

well, someone also installed the period-correct - saddle tanks, rear bumper, luggage rack, bed racks, and bed tie downs - So I could see the owner driving it off the dealers lot and down the street to "Campers-R-Us" for the "Road Trip Kit" ---- but I guess we'll never know for sure.

I just know I'm super bummered Ma' Mopar didn't keep Build Records on our trucks.... :banghead

Anyway - Pics as promised. I'm also delivering these to Mark @ Straighline to see what he can identify. The "Ford-Blue" paint I've managed to find on every single piece of the system has me a tad perplexed as well...

Also - can anyone tell me who manufactured our steering gear boxes? Saginaw? Dana? ... ????
Attachments
Dad's not sure when this cylinder was damaged...
Dad's not sure when this cylinder was damaged...
Cyl Link Mount.jpg
I can't identify this cylinder anywhere, does not look like the typical Garrison cylinder I see elsewhere, but has matching blue paint to everything else...
I can't identify this cylinder anywhere, does not look like the typical Garrison cylinder I see elsewhere, but has matching blue paint to everything else...
Pump1.jpg
Pump3.jpg
Garrison.jpg
Gear Box1.jpg
Pot Engine Bay.jpg
gee, can I still get his filter anywhere .... ????
gee, can I still get his filter anywhere .... ????
Reservoir.jpg

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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

Dealer's install a multitude of items and that is considered "after market", not factory.
I have a garrison system on a 70 W200 crew and recall it has a reservoir like that also. Been awhile since I looked at it and its at a distant location.

DingBat
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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:Dealer's install a multitude of items and that is considered "after market", not factory.
I have a garrison system on a 70 W200 crew and recall it has a reservoir like that also. Been awhile since I looked at it and its at a distant location.
Cool, thanks for the info. Do you happen to recall, or will you check perhaps next time you visit the truck if in fact your unit looks like mine? And do you know or can you check on paint color? I'm wondering if that could be indicative of either a dealer-install, an aftermarket upgrade installed by a shop or the owner, or, since it looks suspiciously like Ford Blue, if it might have been harvested off of a wrecked truck somewhere ....


Anyone know who made the gear boxes in our trucks? Or was Dodge making their own steering boxes?

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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by DingBat »

FYI -

Our Steering Gear boxes were manufactured by Saginaw.

The Power Steering Pump I have is an Eaton U-Series Pump. Exact model cannot be determined unless the pump is taken apart by a knowledgeable builder.

http://www.straightlinesteering.com/
Straight Line Steering can rebuild (if in rebuildable condition) all of these components - Both the Bendix and Garrison style valves, our Saginaw Gear boxes, the Eaton Pumps, and the Bendix and Garrison Ram Cylinders.

Ask for Mark.

Also - these Eaton U-Series pumps will actually support a low-pressure style hydro-boost system, and/or a GM Saginaw style gear-box from an 80's chevy truck.

Interesting note there - the 4x4 Chevy gear boxes will ONLY mount the pitman arm in one direction - but the 2x4 boxes will allow mounting in several directions out of the box, and with some light grinding will allow nearly unlimited mounting angles. I've scoured a LOT of 4x4 forums looking for steering info/upgrades and this was the first I'd heard this.

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Re: Power Steering Assist Mystery

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

pm me your email adr and I'll send the few pics I have. No time to downsize and post here and won't be visiting the truck in the foreseeable future.

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