new box power steering

Suspension, Brakes, Tires, Wheels etc..

Re: new box power steering

Postby Conrad » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:26 am

Ordered and fingers crossed.

I think what I'll do now is to keep the OG /6 springs in place, adding shackles to address their falling apart. Then work on getting the new springs re-worked and the '71 axle to Sids for a small drop. If I had planned this out better, would have gone about this better in the first place.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Commando66 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:08 pm

I called CPP and they said that the kit is in stock for $499. The universal hose kit is extra. Summit Racing now has the part# in their system for $539.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:31 am

Found this
1965-1977 Dodge Pickup Reverse Rotation Power Steering Gear Box [LARES 997]
http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAP ... cureDesc=0
Can I swap out my manual steering box for this, add a pump, hoses and belt and use this or is the cpp kit the way to go?
Thanks
Gerald
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby soopernaut » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Galevin wrote:Found this
1965-1977 Dodge Pickup Reverse Rotation Power Steering Gear Box [LARES 997]
http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAP ... cureDesc=0
Can I swap out my manual steering box for this, add a pump, hoses and belt and use this or is the cpp kit the way to go?
Thanks
Gerald


The 61-71 trucks never had a separate box for power steering. It was just an power assist and used the same box as the manual trucks. The title of that ad is a little misleading since the steering gear is only for 72-77 trucks. This is based on the information at the bottom of the ad.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:32 pm

I’ve noticed the complaints with the CPP power steering boxes in which the wheel was tough to turn standing still.
There has to be a power steering box off a similar car that can be adapted to fit our sweptlines? I had an old 34 Chev Rat rod with 6BT 12 valve cummins that needed power steering and I ordered an electric power steering unit for it. Literally you had to cut the steering column insert the electric unit in the column and then reinstall. Unit was $1800 and took a buddy of mine about 3-4 days to fab. But when done it was perfect. There has to be another similar power steering box off another make/model and/or year that can be adapted to give us power steering all the time, not just in motion. Need some help here as my installer is ready to install but we are lost at the moment. Thanks
Gerald
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby soopernaut » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:01 pm

Galevin wrote:There has to be a power steering box off a similar car that can be adapted to fit our sweptlines? Gerald


There are a lot of older posts about this subject. People added P/S before any kit came out. There is a Toyota 4x4 box and a Ford truck box that have been used.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:30 pm

My installer thought a ford van power steering box that he saw a while back would work. Anyone recall specifically what years and makes of Ford and Toyota’s power steering boxes were used? Really appreciate the help. And yes I have been searching on this site....but there is a ton of info here and it’s hard to find.
Thanks
Gerald
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Kaegi » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:26 am

I think the cpp box is a Toyota box. they cant handle the weight. toytoa boxes are little wimpy things.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:40 am

After 10+ hours of addt research I’ve ordered the cpp kit. Expected to arrive next week. Even if it’s hard to turn at a dead stop it’s got to be better than what I currently have. Anyone here install a pressure regulator that enables the power steering at a stop and then would be adjusted (manually? automatically?) at higher speeds?
Thanks
Gerald
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Conrad » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:55 pm

You can buy a custom power steering pump valve for delivering different flow/presdure and pressure limited.

If you have a manual you can probably rev it up to increase pressure. If you have an automatic you might be able to engineer an RPM triggered solenoid to cut pressure above certain revs.

I had a Scamp 318 that would whine a little in the driveway but was feather-weight on the highway. It was annoying so I added more caster but didn't get as far as managing flow-pressure before selling it.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby earlymopar » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:49 am

In all of the communication and work on this, I've never heard anyone discuss pulley diameters which is what I think is a very strong possibility for the root cause for the low-RPM / low pressure issue. If the pump is not putting out sufficient pressure at idle or low RPM (per it's PSI rating), then pulley that came on the pump is not matched well with the pulley diameter on the engine. Putting a gauge in-line will tell you what you're really getting pressure-wise. Once you've validated that you can test with a 2nd pulley to see the result.

- EM
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:39 pm

I received the cpp kit. I have a mechanic friend that looked at the kit, didn’t ask for any instructions and said give him 4 hours and he’d have it done. Within 3.5 hours he loosened up the steering wheel, cut the muffler pipe that was in his way (he welded it back), removed the old box and installed the cpp box. He had a steering pump off an old 1978? Dodge RV that had a bracket that bolted right up. Once he had this set up, the steering wheel moved one rev to the left and 3+ to the right. He then moved the Pittman arm (that came with the kit) and said that is all he could move it. It was great. Drove the truck for 20 mi and it’s 99% better. The truck before drove like a tractor and now it’s a breeze. Yes at a dead stop it’s tough to turn but move a foot and the power steering kicks in. Very very very pleased. Best money ever spent.

Note: this mechanic is as good as it gets. He’s doing a rear main seal on my 440 tomorrow along with a radio and speaker install and motor mounts. Plus I have a lift and a dream garage so your mileage will vary. Just saying this 440 Duelie is now my daily driver until snow hits. Thank you CPP for a great product. Your product was literally a bolt on. I’ll report back after I drive it some more.

Gerald
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Conrad » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Sounds great Galevin but not sure I understand what he was doing here:
Galevin wrote:Once he had this set up, the steering wheel moved one rev to the left and 3+ to the right. He then moved the Pittman arm (that came with the kit) and said that is all he could move it. It was great.


I have the kit now but am trying to finish the brake conversion first. I haven’t driven the truck in months due to setbacks doing the conversion.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 pm

When this was first hooked up, the steering was not centered and I could barely turn left. I was inside the cab at the wheel on the lift and he corrected the steering by adjusting the Pittman arm. This then centered the steering so I could turn left as easy as I could turn right. I’ve driven 200+ mi since and love the ease of power steering.
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby MadMC63 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:24 pm

The one thing I cant wrap my head around with this power steering conversion is quite simple... power steering was designed to help turn the wheels at a stand still and low speeds for ease of maneuvering in tight spaces and based on all of the threads I've read that is still a problem so why is everybody so happy with it. Once the tires are rolling very little effort is needed to turn the wheels and at 10 MPH power steering is irrelevant so again why is everybody so happy? I converted my truck from manual to OEM power assist and at a complete stop I can easily turns my wheels from lock to lock with very little effort and at speeds above 10 MPH its to much, feather light I believe someone said. A worthwhile endeavor none the less but why does everyone spend $500.00 + dollars, not achieve the basic purpose of power steering and talk about what an improvement it is. I have never owed a pre 80's Chrysler, Dodge, or Plymouth with power steering that didn't react just as my truck does. Are you guys trying to convince yourselves or everyone else?
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Re: new box power steering

Postby Galevin » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:43 pm

This truck steered like a tank and was literally undrivable with manual steering. It would take 3 attempts backing out of my garage going back and forth until I was aimed right. I said previously within one foot the ps kicks in. It’s a few inches in reality. Any motion at all I have ps. I can back out easily and pull forward out of my garage in one attempt forward. Anyone passing thru Indy is welcome to try this and this truck is now my favorite vehicle of 30+ vehicles I own. I’ve got the financial wherewithal that if I was not pleased I was going to install electric ps similar to what I just installed on a rat rod but I can assuredly say I’m overwhelmed with this setup and it’s so close to perfection I’m thrilled with it JMHO,
1969 D200 Crew 440 Magnum 727 Auto CPP Power Steering
1946 6 wheel Power Wagon on S10 frame/driveline
2005 Dodge Rumble Bee 4x4 80k mi
2018 Dodge 3500 Duelie 4x4 40 mi. (New)
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Re: new box power steering

Postby MadMC63 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Not a personal attack as you are one of, I think, three with posted success. Three that come to mind anyway. Most, after the install, write about how easy it is to drive but complain about no power assist at idle and difficulty maneuvering at lower speeds. I had a very similar issue, like you describe, with a nefarious pole. Multiple back and forth attempts to safely avoid said pole once loosing a mirror and thus I installed the power assist uncanny huh. What I'm speaking of, trying to address, is that most seem to forget why power steering was invented in the first place. I'm certain that you can attest to the fact that you really don't require power steering once your vehicle has achieved a certain speed and that's why we now have things like an EVO to regulate fluid pressure at higher pump speeds. Devices like the EVO and smaller diameter steering wheels help to eliminate the over responsiveness of power assisted steering at highway speeds. I believe you mentioned pulley diameter in an earlier part of this thread. We agree that fluid pressure or volume could be the problem but... pulley diameter or pump output can be addressed by engine RPM. Whether it be an automatic or manual transmission both can be placed in a neutral position so that engine RPM's can be raised enough to determine if pump speed or volume is the culprit. To my knowledge no one ever responded to that question ( engine RPM's) in older post. The next logical step in my opinion would be to assess the steering gear-box itself. Anyway, not directed at you personally and I apologize if it were perceived that way.
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Re: new box power steering

Postby earlymopar » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:50 am

The pulley diameter issue was brought up by myself since it had never been mentioned before and no one had apparently experimented with trying an alternate pulley in an attempt to resolve the low RPM lack of power steering. It seems an obvious solution to me as most if not everyone who posted with that problem indicated that once engine RPM was raised, they had power steering. Certainly the issue gets a little more cloudy due to pump pressure ratings as there may be several pump types and styles being used by our members. I am just finishing up my truck with this same kit from CPP but am using a Type 3 pump from a Corvette. I'll report back as to how it goes. It's going to be another month or so as I'm doing a lot of other things at the same time.

- EM
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Re: new box power steering

Postby JLeather » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:36 pm

I've also been hemming and hawing about ordering a CPP kit for a year or so now. It does seem that the available pressure is the issue. It should be possible to adjust the pump for higher idle pressure without increasing top-end pressure. One vendor of the kits (who cannot be mentioned here) offers a pump already adjusted as such and says after many installs all of his customers are happy. I am a bit concerned that if pressure is such a factor that the CPP box may be running at or near capacity and longevity could be an issue. I'm also not sure if the CPP box uses any standard rebuild parts for the future?
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Re: new box power steering

Postby JLeather » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:41 pm

earlymopar wrote:The pulley diameter issue was brought up by myself since it had never been mentioned before and no one had apparently experimented with trying an alternate pulley in an attempt to resolve the low RPM lack of power steering. It seems an obvious solution to me as most if not everyone who posted with that problem indicated that once engine RPM was raised, they had power steering. Certainly the issue gets a little more cloudy due to pump pressure ratings as there may be several pump types and styles being used by our members. I am just finishing up my truck with this same kit from CPP but am using a Type 3 pump from a Corvette. I'll report back as to how it goes. It's going to be another month or so as I'm doing a lot of other things at the same time.

- EM


I believe the pulley diameter is only half of the equation. With the large diameter pulley it may not be possible, no matter what pressures the pump is adjusted for, to achieve 1100+ psi at idle. On the other hand, it seems that some pumps were factory adjusted to only 950 psi or so in which case a smaller pulley still won't produce the pressure that seems to make the CPP box happy at idle?

It's really not rocket science. The box, with X input pressure, should be capable of X pounds of force on the steering arm. That either will or won't be enough leverage to steer the truck at a dead stop. The fact that some people are satisfied with the kit even at a dead stop tells me that unless there are big swings in the quality of the box itself every box should be capable of the required leverage given enough pressure. That means with the right pump this kit *should* work for anyone.

That being said, there are also plenty of people who say they have adjusted their pumps up and/or measured the pressure and still aren't happy. On the fence about trying it myself, but it'll probably happen soon.
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