More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Suspension, Brakes, Tires, Wheels steeringetc..
User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

I have been hitting the yards a lot lately searching for stuff as my project
has progressed. I am now on the Power Steering phase. During this weeks
adventures I noticed a couple things about steering boxes - There seems
to be several over qualified donors, including one that looks to be better
than the Ford and even one from a Dodge!!

Got yer attention yet?!

I present here 5 boxes, from Dodge, Ford and Chevy.
Take a second to review them, and I will identify them in the next post.
(Pay close attention to the one in the middle.)


Click to Enlarge
boxes.jpg

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

If you look close, the 2 on each end are nearly identical, with the exception of a few
minor bosses or shapes of plates. But the 3 mounting holes are all in the same place.
The inputs and out puts appear to be the same on all 5.

If you pay extra close attention, you will notice that the one in the middle has 4 holes
clocked 90 degrees from the others. If it were mounted in a Sweptline, the 4 holes
would be facing DOWN!

OK, enough waiting. Here the descriptions:

A
Dodge Van 1994-1998
Chevy Express/GMC Savana 2500/3500 1996-2002

B
Ford Bronco 1980-1996
Ford Bronco II 1984-1990
Ford Econoline 1982-1996
Ford Explorer 1991-1994
Ford F Series 1980-1996 & 1997 F250/350
Ford Ranger 1983-1997
Mazda B Series 1994-1997
Mazda Navajo 1991-1994

C
Chevy Blazer 1980-1982
Chevy C Series 1980-1986
Chevy/GMC R Series Truck 1987-1989
Chevy/GMC R Series Suburban 1987-1991
GMC C Series 1980-1986
GMC Jimmy 1980-1982 & 1987

D
Ford Expedition 2001-2002
Ford F150 1997-2004
Ford F250 1997-1999

E
Chevy Blazer 1992-1994
Chevy/GMC C&K 1500/2500 Series Truck 1988-1995
Chevy?GMC C&K Series Suburban 1992-1995
Chevy Tahoe 1995
GMC Yukon 1992-1995

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

Now there are a couple unknowns.

Even though the inputs and outputs look the same, are they actually splined the same?
I am going to try and do some more checking on my next trip to the yard.

Also, how do the ratios and number of turns from lock to lock compare?

My guess is that the ratios are pretty close considering the vehicles are
all pretty similar in size and weight. Splines could be an issue, based on brand.

As a side note: The Dodge vans use a double U joint linkage to connect the
box to the column. The column end is a Double D. This could prove helpful
if you needed help lining things up.

I am all ears for input on these!! I picked up a 96 Ford box yesterday, but that
Chevy box with the mounts on the bottom might make mounting much easier.

User avatar
digdoug
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2863
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: Genesee,Id.

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by digdoug »

A and C look like Saginaw boxes.They should have a 1 1/4" sector diameter.This is the most common size,and many lengths of pittman arms are available. The B box ,ford,has a 1 3/8" sector diameter. I dont know about the others.
Are you planning on mounting the box in its stock location,or ahead of the axle,Inside or outside frame.These things will determine what rotation you want your box to be,so when you turn right ,you dont go left. :thinking

Doug

User avatar
MOPAT
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: KLAMATH FALLS, OR

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by MOPAT »

Have you tried:Performance Steering Components?
http://www.pscmotorsports.com
They have all sorts of power steering kits and parts (even a Dodge section) :study
Might be worth a call. :2cents
pat
68 W200 383/727 Dynatrac 35 spline 4.10 limited slip rear end
68 D200 CS {parts for the '68 W200}
71 D200 CS ADVENTURER{parting out
79 B200 van with 'crate' 360/360hp 3.23 Auburn limited slip
73 CJ5 304V-8 Metal Cab
"They ain't pretty But they're paid for"!

User avatar
MountainMoparRobin
Founding Member
Founding Member
Posts: 7854
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: Lakewood
State: CO
Location: Lakewood Colorado

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

I saw a 1972-78 Dodge W100 with a power steering box with the input and output shaft in the sam position as our current ones, it has an adaptor plate to mount the gear box on the outside of the frame instead of inside, it had cross over steering, you might check one looked like a simple swap possibly or do you want a Chevy or Ford box instead?

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

I have done some more digging, and there are Dodge boxes that look like that Chevy, as you mention.

Image

Dodge 1972-1977 D/W 100-300 & Ramcharger
Plymouth 1974-1977 Trailduster

Chevy 1970-1976 Blazer
Chevy/GMC 1968-1976 C Series
GMC 1970-1976 Jimmy

International 1974 100
International 1969 1000B/C 1100B/C
International 1969-1970 1000D 1100D
International 1971-1973 1010
International 1975 150
International 1974-1975 200
International 1969 908B & 908C

I am in no way tied to any brand X for this project, and would prefer to use
a "Mopar" part. Even though they are all probably originally based on Saginaws.

Last night when I was measuring, it sure looked like a cross over would be easy
to do and that mounting forward might be easier also. Still need to do a lot
more measuring and exploring.

Keep the discussion going!

User avatar
digdoug
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2863
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: Genesee,Id.

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by digdoug »

A cross over with the box in front has many advantages. :Thumbsup Those headers are really hogging the space back there.

Doug

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

Looked over the Chevy box today. It rotates the wrong direction.
But it sure looks easy to mount. So a little more digging and I
found that there are 2 Dodge boxes 72-77 and 78-79 that are
available as reverse rotation. None of the others I have found
were available this way. I called the store and they are in the
computer, but they couldn't determine where they were on Sunday.
They run about $170 rebuilt with a lifetime warranty. A bit more
than I would like, but I think they could mounted without modifications
to the box. A big right angle plate would probably do the trick!

Robin, I would be very interested in seeing how the cross over
you described works. I looked at mounting the box on the front,
outside of the rail, but the shocks are in the way. Of course I
just went through the hassle of moving the shock mounts on the
new axle from the back to the front!

User avatar
MountainMoparRobin
Founding Member
Founding Member
Posts: 7854
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: Lakewood
State: CO
Location: Lakewood Colorado

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

Don't wait on me, for I wont get started until late October on the working up power steering, but I'm going back for the bed on the same truck, probably the front leafs, may just go with the box and draglink.
I know about the shock for the 83 I have also has the box on the outside of the frame and it wouldn't work for the shock, however, with the output in the same location, maybe on the inside but to the front of the axle? I'll get on it with the frame on the 68, for Power Steering is a definate! it will happen!

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

Did some comparisons and test fits. The Ford box just isn't going to cut
it for my truck. It is just too big. However, the Chevy box showed promise,
even though it was the wrong rotation. There is however a Dodge version
used on the 72-79 trucks that is available in reverse rotation.

The 3 boxes: 95 Ford, 84 Chevy, Stock 70 Dodge.
Image

Up close - Ford
Image

Chevy
Image

Stock Dodge
Image

The input shafts on the Ford and Chevy were a different tooth count, but
the outputs were the same. The Ford pitman fit on the Chevy box with
only one issue. The splines flared out at the back on the Ford, the Chevy
maintained the same angle. So the pitman slide back further on the Chevy.
However the thick lock nut easily tuck up the extra space.

Ford
Image

Chevy
Image

Next I test fit them. They both are very tight to my exhaust.
Image

When I drop the column in, it sets right on the box! This shows another
problem, the column is on the box, which I have heard needs cut back,
however the shift arm is touching the firewall. So cutting wouldn't
help any, unless I made a bent shift arm.

Image

Here is the Chevy
Image

While is doesn't make things any different at the firewall, it does offer
a little more space at the exhaust. However, this thing will be a dream
to mount!

Image

The Chevy box has a little more room for the fittings also, but not much!
The lines will need to do a quick 180 and run in under the box and around
the outside. A large oil cooler should help deal with the lines being so close
to the exhaust.

As I mentioned, this Chevy box is very close and looks identical to the boxes
used on the 72-79 Dodge trucks. The Dodges break 72-77 and 78-79 for some
reason. They are available in Reverse Rotation, were I haven't found any other
boxes of this design available in reverse rotation. O'Rielly says they can get
me one for $165 with a lifetime warranty. I am VERY tempted to go ahead
and order it. However, I would still like to be further away from the exhaust.
So I am going to make one last ditch effort to source a Toyota box cheaply.

User avatar
Russ
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by Russ »

It's a little close between the ford box and the firewall but it's workable. Here's a pic of my finished column showing how Steve at Prototech solved the problem. He made me a new shifter tube that goes around the borgesen joint. The new shift tube has a thinner nylon bushing that it rides in. The shift arm is bent down slightly to make a little more clearance between it and the firewall. Due to the collapsible steering shaft the borgeson joint can be pulled out about a foot to make hooking it to the box easier.
column2.jpg
1969 Adventurer W100

User avatar
Cageman
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: Bismarck
State: ND

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by Cageman »

This maybe no help to you, but this is how I did my 70 about ten years ago. It still is in there to this day, but I want to do a crossover deal so that my nobs dont rub on the steering arm at a sharp turn, Just one of thsoe things that isnt a priority.
It is out of the same truck I got the front axle and power brake booster out of, a 75 chevy 3/4 ton. It is a saginaw box, and a dana 44, and I think kelsey hayes booster, so technically it isnt chevy, just the lowest bidder to them, LOL
Some people like to keep it all dodge.

Image
Image

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

That is how the 72+ trucks do it. My guess is you relocated the shock to the back
of the axle? Of course I just cut off the shock mount and relocated them to the
front!! However, you are already in good shape for a cross over conversion.

I just found a Toyota box last night for cheap, but it will not be here till next week.
This is really about my only hope at this point, with the truck setup how it is.
Anything else would require more fabrication. If I had been to the steering before
I found the axle, I might have left it alone and moved the shocks back and done
something similiar. But I don't want to cut them off AGAIN! :pale

The Reverse Rotation Dodge box that is similiar to the that one was looking
good and would have been my pick, had the rear dump exhaust not been an issue.
All those Saginaw style boxes stick the hoses out towards the engine and right
into my exhaust. The Toyota put the hoses on top, much better for my situation.

The more I had looked at it last night, the 72+ approach like you have done seems
like a much simpler solution. It is a lot easier to move the shock than it is to cut the
steering column and build a crazy bracket to mount the box sideways, in my opinion.
It also puts cross over steering within easy reach.

User avatar
wide65
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 1487
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by wide65 »

Cageman wrote:This maybe no help to you, but this is how I did my 70 about ten years ago. It still is in there to this day, but I want to do a crossover deal so that my nobs dont rub on the steering arm at a sharp turn, Just one of thsoe things that isnt a priority.
It is out of the same truck I got the front axle and power brake booster out of, a 75 chevy 3/4 ton. It is a saginaw box, and a dana 44, and I think kelsey hayes booster, so technically it isnt chevy, just the lowest bidder to them, LOL
Some people like to keep it all dodge.

Image
Do you have a few more pics of your front end? I am looking into upgrading axles and everything but the steering is a big PITA issue right now

User avatar
nfury8
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: KC, MO
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by nfury8 »

Check out just about any Dodge from 72-93 for axles and the outside, front mount steering.
wide65 wrote:Do you have a few more pics of your front end? I am looking into upgrading axles and everything but the steering is a big PITA issue right now

User avatar
Cageman
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: Bismarck
State: ND

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by Cageman »

My truck now has crossover steering, I dont know how to resize this photo so it shows it all, but here is a link to it, way bigger than it could be here. It cut it off before. It is -25 degrees outside right now, I am not going out to take a photo of how it is now, brrrr.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/c ... scs003.jpg
Image

User avatar
Cageman
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
City: Bismarck
State: ND

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by Cageman »

nfury8 wrote:Check out just about any Dodge from 72-93 for axles and the outside, front mount steering.
Some of them(early, 72,73 maybe) had a stupid bracket that mounted the box sideways on the outside of the frame rail, I would advise against that style.
In my truck, that box/mount style would really cause issues with turning right.
All I did was cut out the chevy frame, and weld it into my frame, and gussetted it on the back side.
Image

User avatar
longbed67
Sweptline.ORG Member
Sweptline.ORG Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:21 pm
City: woodlands
State: TX

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by longbed67 »

lots of useful information great detail I like the Saginaw box .I just installed cpp p o s didn't work sent it back for them to take it apart .looking at putting the Saginaw box on. uglytruckling makes a bracket for it to fit w300 might be useful .thanks for posting this information :salut

User avatar
digdoug
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
Posts: 2863
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Location: Genesee,Id.

Re: More Power Steering Box Donors Found?

Post by digdoug »

Wow, this thread is back from the dead. I am pretty sure the Ugly Truckling kit is for a WM300 (flat fender).
I sold all of my sweptline trucks,except the invisible one. I just couldn't stand to see it go!
( )
91w350 CTD
93w250 CTD

Post Reply