Lowering options?

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OregonDodgeboy
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Re: Lowering options?

Post by OregonDodgeboy »

Lest we forget about another idea that I stumbled across a while back:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=15738
Jeff Easterbrook
66 D100 440/727 on 72 IFS chassis
67 W200 440/4-sp. Resting
76 IH Scout II
81 MB 240D

http://www.jeasterbrook.usana.com

Frame swap Q & A guy :Thumbsup

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

Rusty_Quarters
I have to say that is one hell of a nice jog :Thumbsup I really like how you added it to the Sweptline frame :salut :usa
that is sharp! I also have to compliment you on the price, NOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT!

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Rusty_Quarters »

Robin,
I am pretty proud of this crossmember setup, I went to the pic your part, and there was about 20 aerostar vans out there, so i found one that had the motor and transmission out of it, it took me and a friend about an hour to unbolt, mostly because there are 6 large bolts that hold the crossmember in, and we didnt take a 1/2" breaker bar with us and had to scrounge around and find a piece of pipe to use as a cheater, you take the bolts out and the top a arm mounts as well as the bottom crossmember come off, we cut the break lines, and there is a bolt that keeps the steering shaft on, make sure if you get one of these to keep the steering shaft, it is telescopic and can be used to connect the steering column later, the hardest part was getting it to the front gate to pay for it, as our local yard doesnt allow you to drive in and doesnt forklift stuff around for you. My welder neighbor and I cut and rotated the rack and pinion backwards, and installed it onto the frame, the original aerostar frame is 5 1/2" tall in that area, and our trucks is 5", so I was going to just mount it with a 1/2" thick shim on top of the frame, once I did, I thought it was too tall for my taste, although I could have used cut coil springs or airbags to lower it, I decided to cut it into the bottom part of the frame by 2", and we fabricated the sheetmetal boxes to mount the upper control arm supports, the ball joint setup for the upper ball joint on these is cool as well, as it uses a bolt through the side instead of a tolerance fit taper, The only problem I had was once I cut it into the bottom of the frame, there was a clearance issue with the rack and pinion steering hitting the bottom of the frame so We notched the frame to accomodate clearance, if I had just lowered it using bags or springs, I do not think this would have been an issue, I over thunk it alittle. But, thanks, I am very happy with it, it is a cheap mustang II style crossmember setup, with the right bolt pattern, rack and pinion, coil springs, independant, disc brakes, and they are plentiful, not to mention it is only 1" difference in track width from our originals. I think it is the best setup for our trucks.
To my son "...its not always important what I said, its important cause I said it." KEA

70 Dodge D100 no longer 4x4
68 Dodge Superbee (Real not Clone)
68 Jeep Jeepster
2007 Honda Civic SI
2005 Nissan Pathy

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Rusty_Quarters »

Forgot to mention, a couple of things, there are two bolts in each side to loosen the sway bar mounts, I misspelled Brake lines, and you should get the sway bar mount brackets while you are there, as they can be reused to mount the sway bar, I had to go back and get them, also, I have to have a custom hose made to go to the power steering rack from our p/s pumps, so it is best to cut the end of the p/s hose off of the mini-van, the Aerostar van I got this off of was a 90, although I was told that from 86 to 97 are all the same, although I cannot confirm this.
To my son "...its not always important what I said, its important cause I said it." KEA

70 Dodge D100 no longer 4x4
68 Dodge Superbee (Real not Clone)
68 Jeep Jeepster
2007 Honda Civic SI
2005 Nissan Pathy

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Rusty_Quarters »

Oregon Dodge boy, I agree that aluminum 05 crown vic is the hot tip, although, they are not yet plentiful, or cheap, I have been looking for one when I ran across the aerostar deal, these vans are all over the place right now, and are getting right at the correct age to show up in the pic and pulls for cheap, I took the whole unit to the cashier thinking it was going to cost me a fortune, and the guy looked it over, and gave me a price normally $300 but since it was half price day (Holiday's) 150, and some bogus core charge of 25 bucks. They are popular, rated for up to 5500 pounds, have a nice appearance when done right, and Ithink was a pretty basic install.
To my son "...its not always important what I said, its important cause I said it." KEA

70 Dodge D100 no longer 4x4
68 Dodge Superbee (Real not Clone)
68 Jeep Jeepster
2007 Honda Civic SI
2005 Nissan Pathy

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

I think the plentiful will depend on where a person is also, for I know from living in other states that the general population in each area's likes and dislike's and what matches the geographical terrain wil differ, for here in Colorado, you see more Mopars than any other manufacter, and of Mopars Jeeps are the most popular :Thumbsup

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Rusty_Quarters »

Robin,
You are correct, I simply meant, that they built half a cajillion of these things in that 11 year time period, and I think, that with the exception of some of the more terrain limited areas (?), you should be able to find a pretty good crop of these growing in most metropolitan area pick your parts, they were used as passenger vans, delivery and business vans, I find them on ebay all the time for 500-1000 dollars complete running with 300,000 miles on them, and if you were up to it, some of the later years even had a pretty stout 8.8 ford rearend with disc brakes, that would not be a bad alternative for our trucks, if you are running a 8 1/4 or something undesirable, as they have the same bolt pattern, and general width, so if you could pick one up for say 600, and get the front suspension, rearend, and complete brake system off of it, it would probably be worth it for a cruizer style pickup. Who knows what else you could utilize off of one of these things.
To my son "...its not always important what I said, its important cause I said it." KEA

70 Dodge D100 no longer 4x4
68 Dodge Superbee (Real not Clone)
68 Jeep Jeepster
2007 Honda Civic SI
2005 Nissan Pathy

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

Would you type up a Tech article on your swap? with as many pictures that you may have? :thinking

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Rusty_Quarters »

I took quite a few pics along the way, so yeah I could work on something, I just have to download the pics at my job, but that should not be too big of a deal.
To my son "...its not always important what I said, its important cause I said it." KEA

70 Dodge D100 no longer 4x4
68 Dodge Superbee (Real not Clone)
68 Jeep Jeepster
2007 Honda Civic SI
2005 Nissan Pathy

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

Would like to post it in the Tech section on the homepage, so others can see what it takes in case they consider the same. just send it email when you have it please, everyone on the site would appreciate the tech info :Thumbsup

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

Hello i am a new member to this site, altho i have visited it many times in the past, and it has bee most helpful. I bought a 1970 long bed sweptline automatic with a 318 a couple years ago and soon pulled the 318 and put a 440 in its place. I ended up overheating it, and ruined the block, so now i am working on a 451 stroker for it. i am also lowering the truck, and restoring it. i have recently lowered the front end by flipping the axle on top of the leafs, I did not remove any leafs, because i want to keep the strength for a high hp engine, and it gave me the ride height i am looking for. It gave me about a 4 and a half to 5 inch drop. i have read a lot about bumpsteer, and it is of course a concern to me after reading so much about it on this site. since i will hopefully have around 500 horse its not something i want to encounter on the topend. my question is if i shorten the pitman by around an inch and a half or two inches, will that eliminate the chance of bumpsteer? or do i need to do more mods to the steering? i have read about moving the steering box up also, and i am not sure if it is necessary, because i did not do a very drastic drop. any info or input would be greatly appreciated, as i have never done a drop before. Thanks!

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

451jake
your definetly going to have bumpsteer, you'll need your truck runnin so you can test it, shortening the pitman arm by 1 inch will help, but your going to have to do other things also to rid yourself of the bumpsteer :pale

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

Robin,
thanks for the info. i cant seem to grasp how shortning the pitman and bending the drag link eliminates or helps bumpsteer, altho it obviously works, because everyone says this is the best way. the only reason i can think of is because it puts less bind on the whole steering assembly with a shorter pitman, and puts it a little closer back to its origional position. Is this the correct reason? I think if i could grasp exactly what it does it would be a lot easier for me to adjust and play with the steering a bit after i get the truck running. and as for shortening the pitman, just take it to a good weld shop that will weld cast, have them cut an inch out, and weld it back together? I just took it off the steering box and took the drag likg off of it tonight and got it all cleaned up, and saw that it has casting marks on the top and bottom of it. I was hoping it was steel, so i could weld and cut it myself, but i have never done anything with cast before.
Thanks, Jake

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

I see that cantspell said you can actually have the drag link welded so that answers that question, now that i look. and my piman measures about7 3/8, so i will look around and see if i can find one thats 6 3/8. im hoping it is the same spline? Thanks

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

That is not true, their have been a couple of truck owners that has made a power steering swap using a toyota box and then welding the top part of sweptline to the bottom pitman arm of toyota. Haven't seen any postings of ptman arms with the different lengths, but they are out their.
Steering Geometry: when you drop the suspension over 3", it changes the geometry that was designed to expand 6" for rough terrain, your changing the baseline of travel, the baseline is what the suspension will come back to, so the parts are designed longer, because the baseline was higher when designed, so your compacting the geometry to a smaller area.
hope this helps :Thumbsup
I actually was fortunate and droped mine over 3", because the springs had a little more arch, I have no bumpsteer, but I have an improvement to make so that I can have the handling of a sports car :dance

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

ya it makes sense about the geometry. the best bet for me is to get it running and just play around with the steering and find something that works i think. I will not use parts off of anything but dodge for this truck, so the option about the box is out of the question, im sure if i keep lookingaround in junkyards, i will find something that will work. thanks for the info.
Jake

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

i have found a way to move the steering box up almost 3 inches. i will post pics when im done, hopefully in the next few weeks. it requires some frame notching and modifications, but i think wll work very well, and as a bonus, now i dont think i will have to cut my pitman down an inch. i hope the pics will be a help when im done.

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by MountainMoparRobin »

The good thing is that you'll be able to see the need for the shortening of the pitman arm, have you done a mock up? as far as sittin the straight axle on top of the springs with the pitmna arm and drag link connected? you'll then see where the two come into contact. :Thumbsup

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by 451jake »

Yes I have done a mockup and everything works well. The pitman clears the frame and the draglink passes over the axle. Everything works well. I got almosa 3 inches out of the steering box, so that should definitly help. I will post pics when I'm done, so everyone can see another way to hopefully help get rid of bump steer

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Re: Lowering options?

Post by Cageman »

I would just put a curve in the drag link, I wouldnt move the box or shorten the arm. as long as the points are connected with an link that thinks it is level, it will be okay, if the arm is going up hill and is straight it will have bumpsteer, same with downhill. the drag link should look like this, you'll have to use your imagination, Im not good at explaining.
""""" ___
___/
Image

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