Swapping full frame '83 D-150 under '69 D-100 ?

[Snowdogg]

This post has realy got my gears turnin'

[DaytonaGTS]

remember the wheelbase is a little different so you may have to run a 4-link or come up with something to move the wheelbase...

Since the measured distance from hub to hub between these two trucks is about 2.25". My plan right now is to move the Rear suspension forward about 2 inches and the rest of the difference will never be noticed because of the shape of the rear fender well ;)

you could always use that tank with the other frame just use the straps...

That is a back up plan just in case we can't get the newer full frame to work clean enough.

It takes a little luck and a lot of skill and fab know how to make projects like this work. But the best help is in the experiences of people that have already tried and can help with the unforseen problems you will run up against.

Thanks for all the help so far from those that have been down this road before. Any more help or suggestions even if they are little ones will be very help full.

[soopernaut]

I'd say, unless you are going for the lowered look, make the cab match the bed height. You're gonna have to make a body lift anyway. The height of the top of the cab mounts are lower than the core support mounts. The original frame was flat in this area, so you will have to lift it.

Which area was flat on the old frame but not the new frame? The front where the core support is or the area under the cab? I measured everything on my frame and made a drawing of it. I didn't have a new frame to compare it to though.

Since the measured distance from hub to hub between these two trucks is about 2.25". My plan right now is to move the Rear suspension forward about 2 inches and the rest of the difference will never be noticed because of the shape of the rear fender well ;)

According to all the information I have seen there should be a 3 inch difference in wheelbase. Maybe they rounded off the numbers. If it is only 2.25" it would be even better.

[DaytonaGTS]

Since the measured distance from hub to hub between these two trucks is about 2.25". My plan right now is to move the Rear suspension forward about 2 inches and the rest of the difference will never be noticed because of the shape of the rear fender well ;)

According to all the information I have seen there should be a 3 inch difference in wheelbase. Maybe they rounded off the numbers. If it is only 2.25" it would be even better.

Yes everything I've read says 128 on the '69 and 131 on the '83...

but the '69 was 128.5" and the '83 was 130.75"

That is my 2.25" difference, and I measured both sides to make sure the wheels were strait ;)

[oldopelguy]

If you're building a short bed it might be as easy to cut a long bed down the the correct length for the wheelbase as move suspension parts. Just one thoght. I had to cut 3" out of the front half of my 9' '56 stepside bed when I put it on my '85.


Alternatly, and speaking of step sides, the step side beds will work without worrying about lining things up, and that would be even easier. Even if you had to move the fender on the side of the bed a little bit to line it up it would be pretty easy.

[soopernaut]

If you're building a short bed it might be as easy to cut a long bed down the the correct length for the wheelbase as move suspension parts. Just one thoght.

These aren't flat frames. Cutting the length down and moving everything wouldn't work. You would have to cut out from the middle.

[oldopelguy]

Guess I should have been more clear. You could cut a section out of the front half of the bed to make yourself a longer than normal bed with the wheel holes lined up correctly for the longer frame. By the same token, you could stretch the front of a bed a bit too, plenty of beds out there with bad rear corners to act as organ doners. I'm not advocating cutting the frame at all, seems to me the bed would be a lot more forgiving down the road if something were to go wrong; worst case you take the bed off and try again, as opposed to a messed up frame requiring a tear down of the whole truck.

[soopernaut]

OK, that makes sense. I read more into that than I should have. I don't have the cutting/welding experience or equipment so it would probably be pretty expensive to have someone do that for me. It would probably be cheaper for me to have somebody shorten a frame.

[OregonDodgeboy]

I'd say, unless you are going for the lowered look, make the cab match the bed height. You're gonna have to make a body lift anyway. The height of the top of the cab mounts are lower than the core support mounts. The original frame was flat in this area, so you will have to lift it.

Which area was flat on the old frame but not the new frame? The front where the core support is or the area under the cab? I measured everything on my frame and made a drawing of it. I didn't have a new frame to compare it to though.

The area under the cab dips down IIRC.

I've had the idea for many years to make a piece to go on the later frame's front mount that allows you to bolt the two together. I don't have a drawing yet, but as I picture it, it looks like one of those aftermarket tubular truck steps you see on newer 4x4s. It would go out near the backside of the step area and have the needed mount for the old cab on it. Then it would curve and run along the backside of the step towards the back of the cab. Where it would turn back to the frame and have the rear cab mount on it. In the rear it would just need a plate on the end with 4 holes in it to attach to the frame.

Once perfected, this is all you would need to do to make this swap; once the newer cab is out of the way, you torch (or grind) the rivets and remove the rear mounts. Bolt the new adapter to the front mount, drill 4 holes to mount the rear of the adapter, and it's over. Drop the cab on and bolt it down.

With that plan, you only have to determine the cab height above what's required to make it level on the frame and add lift blocks accordingly. And since it's "hidden" by the step, you would never know it's there. I also thought it would male a great place to mount some magnesium blocks for the frame draggin crowd.

[DaytonaGTS]

I've been doing alot of looking and thinking about cab mounts. My last plan was to make adapter mounts that would make up the distance between the corrilating cab mount. I may also do them with a little hight, to block up the front end off the frame just alittle, unless it will be too much and look like crap.

OregonDodgeboy, do you remember how much of a difference hight wise is between the old and new frame?

Well as of now I think my buddy and his shop space to do this project is out of the picture do to the wife.

So I may be doing it in my drive way, since I don't have a garage ... so depending on the weather this may take longer then I was hopeing.... Oh well..... My biggest challenge will be pulling the engines on pea-gravel and alittle bit of an incline.

[soopernaut]

I'd say, unless you are going for the lowered look, make the cab match the bed height. You're gonna have to make a body lift anyway. The height of the top of the cab mounts are lower than the core support mounts. The original frame was flat in this area, so you will have to lift it.

Which area was flat on the old frame but not the new frame? The front where the core support is or the area under the cab? I measured everything on my frame and made a drawing of it. I didn't have a new frame to compare it to though.

The area under the cab dips down IIRC.

The original frame has a drop center below the cab too. I haven't actually done this swap, so I don't know how much difference there is in this section. To me it looks like Slicks cab isn't on blocks or anything.

From the information I have now here is how I would think you could do the swap. Some of this may be wrong because I am missing information. I put question marks after things I am not sure of.

Put the old front cab mounts on the new frame in the same spot. The rear ones are fine? The distance from the front cab mounts to the core support mounts are the same on both frames. Put the cab directly on the mounts with blocks? Flip the crossmembers under the bed so they bow down. Move the bed forward and redrill holes to mount it. Put the original rear leafs on the new frame and axle to get it 2 inches forward? Shorten the driveshaft to make it fit. This is a very simple version of it.

Someone also mentioned the area over the rear axle was 2 inches higher. You would also need blocks to remedy this. You would need them under the cab and bed if this is true. What do you use for blocks?

[DaytonaGTS]

I don't think slicks cab is on blocks at all, thats why he cut out the sections of his bed to make the bed sit as low as the cab ;)

Sooper you hit on several things I won't know for sure till I get both frames stripped and start measuring. The rear cab mounts are relitively in the same area, would be cool if they were exacly right but since the the whole frame and body was redone I bet they are not the same.

For the rear it would be a matter of moving the leaf spring mounts not just the springs, correct me if I'm wrong but the difference in wheel base doesn't come from where the axle is mounted on the spring but where the spring perches are mounted, right? Because the axle is set in the middle of the leaf spring, so that if your either accelerating or braking it will flex evenly...

Blocks are easy to make if your on the cheap out of rectangle tube stock, or you can get them in any hight from any parts store.

The area over the axle I tend to bring the wheel wells inward (mini-tub)to allow for that extra hight hopefully allowing me to not have to block the cab too much. and giving me more room for wider tires in the back ;)

[OregonDodgeboy]

Sooper you hit on several things I won't know for sure till I get both frames stripped and start measuring. The rear cab mounts are relitively in the same area, would be cool if they were exacly right but since the the whole frame and body was redone I bet they are not the same... Blocks are easy to make if your on the cheap out of rectangle tube stock, or you can get them in any hight from any parts store...

I reused my old mounts on the newer frame. The problem you face is that where the mount attaches to the frame its about 3" lower, along the horizontal plane, in relation to the mounts at the core support. The frame takes a dip down in that area. I wish the picts I have here of it showed it better, but they dont.

Anyway, you could notch the core support and lower it, but there is a structural crossmember right below the radiator (IIRC) that you will have to deal with. So unless you do some really fancy radiator work or can remove and redo that crossmember, you have to put lift blocks on it. When I did mine, not only did I not have that ability, but I was fine with the ride height I achieved. If you want a totally slammed look it's more involved.

As far as the rear mounts, just remove them before you even try to put the cab on. As I recall, the area that's pictured below lines right up with it. My cab is actually a little wrinkled there now (the pict kinda hides it), because of them being in the way. Save yourself the work later, just remove the rear mounts until you are ready to reinstall them.

For the rear it would be a matter of moving the leaf spring mounts not just the springs, correct me if I'm wrong but the difference in wheel base doesn't come from where the axle is mounted on the spring but where the spring perches are mounted, right? Because the axle is set in the middle of the leaf spring, so that if your either accelerating or braking it will flex evenly...

Spring length is also a factor here. You need to measure the length of the springs. Mainly from the center pin forward I'd think. Not all leaf springs are the same length from the center pin outward. In fact, I don't recall any that are. But I also recall that the newer truck has a longer spring pack.

Another question; if you are wanting a true frame dragger, why are you messing around with rear springs? Aren't you baggin' it? if so, you have to build a 4-link anyway, so adjust your wheelbase when you do that. And since you will have to cut out a bunch of bed floor anyway, it shouldn't be any big deal to make new mounts for the bed. Then it's as close to the cab as stock. But wouldn't some extra space be good back there? If you're rollin and profilin', keeping the cab from kissing the bed when the frame flexes is a good idea, don't ya think?

[DaytonaGTS]

Thanks for the info oregon ;)

I'm not going to totally slam my truck, just lower it to a nice clean ride hight, probebly betwen 6-8 inches lower than it is now.. especially in the front, rides way to high in the front for a 2 wheel drive.

[slick]

my cab isn't on any blocks, but I did have to channel a small length of the cab about a foot long to fit over the frame...for the front I did notch out the core support and build some brackets then I will run a different size radiator...

[OregonDodgeboy]

Thanks for the info oregon ;)

I'm not going to totally slam my truck, just lower it to a nice clean ride hight, probebly betwen 6-8 inches lower than it is now.. especially in the front, rides way to high in the front for a 2 wheel drive.

Anytime man!

Another nice feature of this build is the aftermarket parts availability. Once you have it all put back together you have options. If the ride height isn't right, you can get bag kits, lowered spindles, etc. It really opens up your possibilities.

Beautiful truck BTW! Looks like you won't have alot of other work to do to it.

[slick]

you can't get dropped spindles...nobody makes them

[soopernaut]

It's good to get information from people who have already been there and done that.

I'm not going for that slammed look either when I do mine. The main purpose was to get better brakes and steering. Being able to have it sit a little lower is just an added benefit.

I'm not cutting anything on my bed because you don't find better bed floors than the one I have now. I am using rear leafs because this is a budget build. If I wanted to spend the money I would use the stock frame and start buying suspension kits for the front and rear.

There was a post about a 2 inch difference in the pin placement on the new and old springs. I don't know for sure if this will work but I'm sure it won't be too long before somebody figures out if it will.

[dodged200]

Anymore on this subject? Did you ever finish the swap?