Master Cyl swap D200
- menefreghista762
- Sweptline.ORG Member
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: Baytown
- State: TX
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Master Cyl swap D200
I'd like to swap the leaking suicide cylinder for a safer double. 67-76 Dodge truck 3/4 ton work? What about pushrod modification? Anything else to know?
[color=#FF0000]"Catfish"
64 W100 \6, np420, 4.10 SG, stick_WAR WAGON!!!
65 D200 318ci, stick-SOLD!
67 D200 318c, stick-SOLD!
"Once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend[/color]
64 W100 \6, np420, 4.10 SG, stick_WAR WAGON!!!
65 D200 318ci, stick-SOLD!
67 D200 318c, stick-SOLD!
"Once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend[/color]
I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.
Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.
Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John
- wideblock
- Founding Member
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: las cruces nm
- State: NM
- Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
- Contact:
bout 2 weeks ago to be exact. you do not have to change the push rod. mine bolted right up without even any adjustment. but, you do have to make a plate for the fire wall to convert from the 2 hole master to the 4 hole on the fire wall. i drilled my plate out, and inserted bolts thru the back side for the 2 hole pattern, then tach welded them in place, ground off the heads where everything was smooth, so they could be used like studs. did the nut and bolt on the 4 hole pattern to the fire wall since ill never have to remove it again. plate was 5/16" ran a 67 splitter block as john did, and got lucky, mine came with the coiled lines already. then rearranged and rerun the other lines accordingly to meet up with the new splitter. mine was a bit of a hassel due to my tyruck coming with the factory hydrovac. so my factory splitter, and all my lines joined under my drivers floor board. if yours has always had manual brakes, then the splitter will be under the hood where life will be easier. if, you want to upgrade abit furthur, find a 67 booster, bracket and push rod, it bolts to the same area and also wont take any more mods then your already gonna have to do. if you need any coaching, feel free to ask. like i said, i just did this a few weeks ago to my 65 crew cab.
Trey
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
In the MOPAR MUSCLE mag I got today there is an ad for SS Brakes. They have a distribution block with a built in adjustable proportioning valve [$124-$144]. I randomly pulled up a 70 Challenger and they had a drum to disc conversion kit for 8 3/4 or 9 3/4 rearends. Kind of spendy @ $810. Might work on the D100??
http://www.ssbrakes.com
68 W200 383/727 Dynatrac 35 spline 4.10 limited slip rear end
68 D200 CS {parts for the '68 W200}
71 D200 CS ADVENTURER{parting out
79 B200 van with 'crate' 360/360hp 3.23 Auburn limited slip
73 CJ5 304V-8 Metal Cab
"They ain't pretty But they're paid for"!
68 D200 CS {parts for the '68 W200}
71 D200 CS ADVENTURER{parting out
79 B200 van with 'crate' 360/360hp 3.23 Auburn limited slip
73 CJ5 304V-8 Metal Cab
"They ain't pretty But they're paid for"!
- menefreghista762
- Sweptline.ORG Member
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: Baytown
- State: TX
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Sounds like too much for me to mess with right now, time is not something I have a lot of. Guess I will just rebuild the original single. Thanks for the answers though!wideblock wrote:bout 2 weeks ago to be exact. you do not have to change the push rod. mine bolted right up without even any adjustment. but, you do have to make a plate for the fire wall to convert from the 2 hole master to the 4 hole on the fire wall. i drilled my plate out, and inserted bolts thru the back side for the 2 hole pattern, then tach welded them in place, ground off the heads where everything was smooth, so they could be used like studs. did the nut and bolt on the 4 hole pattern to the fire wall since ill never have to remove it again. plate was 5/16" ran a 67 splitter block as john did, and got lucky, mine came with the coiled lines already. then rearranged and rerun the other lines accordingly to meet up with the new splitter. mine was a bit of a hassel due to my tyruck coming with the factory hydrovac. so my factory splitter, and all my lines joined under my drivers floor board. if yours has always had manual brakes, then the splitter will be under the hood where life will be easier. if, you want to upgrade abit furthur, find a 67 booster, bracket and push rod, it bolts to the same area and also wont take any more mods then your already gonna have to do. if you need any coaching, feel free to ask. like i said, i just did this a few weeks ago to my 65 crew cab.
[color=#FF0000]"Catfish"
64 W100 \6, np420, 4.10 SG, stick_WAR WAGON!!!
65 D200 318ci, stick-SOLD!
67 D200 318c, stick-SOLD!
"Once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend[/color]
64 W100 \6, np420, 4.10 SG, stick_WAR WAGON!!!
65 D200 318ci, stick-SOLD!
67 D200 318c, stick-SOLD!
"Once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend[/color]
- wide65
- Sweptline.ORG Pioneer
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- Location: Colorado
- Contact:
Any pics?Hobcobble wrote:I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.
Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John
- MarsMonster
- Sweptline.ORG Member
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: Seattle/WA
I did this swap on my 1966 D100. New lines, new brake hoses, new wheel cylinders, 1968 master cylinder, new brakes. 1968 proportioning valve on the brake lines. The one thing I am not happy about is the fact that my master cylinder push rod is too long for the application. I ended up shimming my master away from the firewall about half an inch just to get the truck road worthy again.
I have a 1967 D200 power brake booster that I plan on installing, to replace my dual resevior master. The power brake booster has an adjustable push rod. Only problem I have with going this rout is that the master cylinder on the D200 model uses larger brake fittings than the D100 application. I will have to remove the 1967 D200 master from the power brake booster and replace it with a NOS 1967 D100 dual resevior master.
Mars
I have a 1967 D200 power brake booster that I plan on installing, to replace my dual resevior master. The power brake booster has an adjustable push rod. Only problem I have with going this rout is that the master cylinder on the D200 model uses larger brake fittings than the D100 application. I will have to remove the 1967 D200 master from the power brake booster and replace it with a NOS 1967 D100 dual resevior master.
Mars
1966 D100
SW
360 A727
SW
360 A727
- wideblock
- Founding Member
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: las cruces nm
- State: NM
- Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
- Contact:
mars bro, your way off. you cannot put a d200 master on a d100 truck. the bores are 1/8" different in diameter and wont swap. you will push way too much fluid to the wheel cylinders.
you also cant replace the 200 master with a 100 master. the 200 uses a 2 bolt moutning pad, the 100 uses a 4 bolt. it wont bolt to the booster. you need to use the brakcetry you got for the booster and buy a 100 powwer booster if you want it to work right.
menegfirwhatever, its not that much work. build a plate, slap on the master and reroute the lines for the new splitter block. real easy, but it is a bit time consuming.
BTW, its NOT a proportioning valve. 4 wheel drum brakes are not a proportional system.
you also cant replace the 200 master with a 100 master. the 200 uses a 2 bolt moutning pad, the 100 uses a 4 bolt. it wont bolt to the booster. you need to use the brakcetry you got for the booster and buy a 100 powwer booster if you want it to work right.
menegfirwhatever, its not that much work. build a plate, slap on the master and reroute the lines for the new splitter block. real easy, but it is a bit time consuming.
BTW, its NOT a proportioning valve. 4 wheel drum brakes are not a proportional system.
Trey
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
Any pics you're specifically in need of? Perhapswide65 wrote:Any pics?Hobcobble wrote:I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.
Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John
the master cylinder to the junction block? Let me
know and I'll see what I can do.
John
Here are pics of my '61 D200 set up. I did it a bit
different in that I mounted the line junction block
off of the frame up on a line bracket I scavenged
from a W200. You can see the master cylinder is a 4
bolt style. As my wiring harness had no provisions
for a brake indicator light, I just left the terminal
bare. I re-did the whole brake system... shoes, lines
[cut/bent & flared my own], wheel cylinders, etc..
The drums were fine as is but I put in all new hub
seals.
John
different in that I mounted the line junction block
off of the frame up on a line bracket I scavenged
from a W200. You can see the master cylinder is a 4
bolt style. As my wiring harness had no provisions
for a brake indicator light, I just left the terminal
bare. I re-did the whole brake system... shoes, lines
[cut/bent & flared my own], wheel cylinders, etc..
The drums were fine as is but I put in all new hub
seals.
John
- wideblock
- Founding Member
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: las cruces nm
- State: NM
- Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
- Contact:
john, how are you running a 4 bolt master? all the listings i found thru 3 parts houses were all half ton with 4 bolts and 3/4 ton with 2. the bore sizes are dramatically different. unless the early trucks had smaller wheel cylinders like the half tons?? im now confused........
Trey
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
- MarsMonster
- Sweptline.ORG Member
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: Seattle/WA
I me oh my. So sad. I was planning on putting this on my truck. Thanks for pointing out the bolt pattern. Pulled this from a 67 D200. Anyone with a complete D100 brake booster that is willing to trade up? Was aware that I needed to change out the dual resevior but never noticed the bolt pattern.
Mars
Mars
1966 D100
SW
360 A727
SW
360 A727
I can't say that I'm positive of this, but I'm pretty sure that all power brake trucks had two bolt master cylinders, so the 200 booster will work. I doubt that it's different from a 100 booster. At any rate, here's a master cylinder that you can use with the booster you have. This is a one inch bore, two bolt mc. Your local parts house should be able to cross reference the p/n if they don't have Wagner products. You are going to need two adapters as the non-power brake line fittings are different. From memory, it looks like the pushrod on your booster is a longer than a 100 uses so you might have to shorten it.
1969 Adventurer W100
- wideblock
- Founding Member
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: las cruces nm
- State: NM
- Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
- Contact:
there is a difference. like i stated before, the 100 masters are a 1" bore, the 200 masters are 1 1/8" bore. if you are runng a 100 master on a 200 with stock wheel cylinders you will not have a pedal worth crap. it will be soft and have a ton of travel. and just the opposite if you run a 200 master on a 100 truck. ask hotrodjohn, his is like this right now. the brakes are touchy as hell and he has an extremely hard pedal. you cant mix and match masters and wheel cylinders, if you have 100 parts, kepp it 100 parts all the way thru.
john, whats the bore size on the w100 cylinder your useing?? all the ones i looked up, w or d were all listed as a 1" bore. i just cant figure out why your 200 with the larger wheel cylinders is working worth a damn with the 100 master on there. its just not making sence to me. i do have that right.... you have a w100 master on a d200 truck??? unless the 61 uses a smaller whell cylinder in the 200 series then the newer trucks did, it just isnt making any sence
john, whats the bore size on the w100 cylinder your useing?? all the ones i looked up, w or d were all listed as a 1" bore. i just cant figure out why your 200 with the larger wheel cylinders is working worth a damn with the 100 master on there. its just not making sence to me. i do have that right.... you have a w100 master on a d200 truck??? unless the 61 uses a smaller whell cylinder in the 200 series then the newer trucks did, it just isnt making any sence
Trey
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
"you also cant replace the 200 master with a 100 master. the 200 uses a 2 bolt moutning pad, the 100 uses a 4 bolt. it wont bolt to the booster. you need to use the brakcetry you got for the booster and buy a 100 powwer booster if you want it to work right."
Trey, That's not correct. A stock 100 booster uses a two bolt master cylinder. A 100 and 200 booster look just alike so my opinion is that they are the same. The Wagner cylinder in my previous post is a one inch bore, two bolt mc. You are correct that if you use a 1 1/8 bore mc on a brake system that is supposed to have a 1" bore you will not be able to stop. "Been there, tried that" and it doesn't work. My comments are correct for a 69 and later Sweptline, don't know about older models.
Trey, That's not correct. A stock 100 booster uses a two bolt master cylinder. A 100 and 200 booster look just alike so my opinion is that they are the same. The Wagner cylinder in my previous post is a one inch bore, two bolt mc. You are correct that if you use a 1 1/8 bore mc on a brake system that is supposed to have a 1" bore you will not be able to stop. "Been there, tried that" and it doesn't work. My comments are correct for a 69 and later Sweptline, don't know about older models.
1969 Adventurer W100
- wideblock
- Founding Member
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
- City: las cruces nm
- State: NM
- Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
- Contact:
hmmmm, in all the searching i did, i never turned up a 100 master with only 2 bolts. but, i never looked for power brake applications either. i was trying to find a 4 bolt with 1 1/8 bore. never even thought there would be a difference in the w and the d series trucks. learn somthing new every day.
Trey
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
1965 CSS Utiline.
ex trucks:
70 D100
66 d100
66 d100
67 d100
69 d100
69 d200 crew cab
65 crew cab
66 d100
66 d100
"i don't know it all, but i know enough to be dangerous"
Trey,
Here's what I know.... long ago, I replaced the
master cylinder on my '68 W100 [as Doug says, it
has the 8 lug axles...] I bought a replacement master
cylinder for it.... it matched what I took off....
which was a 4 bolt style.
When I converted my '61 D200, I bought the same style
master cylinder. I used the same diameter brake line
as was used with the line junction block I removed
from a '71 W200 [still with me?.... ]. I used
the stock '61 D200 wheel cylinders [single piston
style] & installed new shoes & hardware. The brakes
have worked fine for the 5 [or so...] years I've
driven it. The pedal seems fine.... not stiff or
spongy. If I re-did another system [single to dual]
in the future, I'd most likely find a firewall plate
and use the '67 & up 2 bolt master.As I previously
stated.... for a 200 series truck like yours or
Menefreghista762, stick with the 2 bolt master and
firewall plate.
John
Here's what I know.... long ago, I replaced the
master cylinder on my '68 W100 [as Doug says, it
has the 8 lug axles...] I bought a replacement master
cylinder for it.... it matched what I took off....
which was a 4 bolt style.
When I converted my '61 D200, I bought the same style
master cylinder. I used the same diameter brake line
as was used with the line junction block I removed
from a '71 W200 [still with me?.... ]. I used
the stock '61 D200 wheel cylinders [single piston
style] & installed new shoes & hardware. The brakes
have worked fine for the 5 [or so...] years I've
driven it. The pedal seems fine.... not stiff or
spongy. If I re-did another system [single to dual]
in the future, I'd most likely find a firewall plate
and use the '67 & up 2 bolt master.As I previously
stated.... for a 200 series truck like yours or
Menefreghista762, stick with the 2 bolt master and
firewall plate.
John