Master Cyl swap D200

menefreghista762 · Post by **menefreghista762** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:20 pm

I'd like to swap the leaking suicide cylinder for a safer double. 67-76 Dodge truck 3/4 ton work? What about pushrod modification? Anything else to know?

Post by **Hobcobble** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:40 am

I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.

Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out

John

Website · Post by **wideblock** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:07 pm

bout 2 weeks ago to be exact. you do not have to change the push rod. mine bolted right up without even any adjustment. but, you do have to make a plate for the fire wall to convert from the 2 hole master to the 4 hole on the fire wall. i drilled my plate out, and inserted bolts thru the back side for the 2 hole pattern, then tach welded them in place, ground off the heads where everything was smooth, so they could be used like studs. did the nut and bolt on the 4 hole pattern to the fire wall since ill never have to remove it again. plate was 5/16" ran a 67 splitter block as john did, and got lucky, mine came with the coiled lines already. then rearranged and rerun the other lines accordingly to meet up with the new splitter. mine was a bit of a hassel due to my tyruck coming with the factory hydrovac. so my factory splitter, and all my lines joined under my drivers floor board. if yours has always had manual brakes, then the splitter will be under the hood where life will be easier. if, you want to upgrade abit furthur, find a 67 booster, bracket and push rod, it bolts to the same area and also wont take any more mods then your already gonna have to do. if you need any coaching, feel free to ask. like i said, i just did this a few weeks ago to my 65 crew cab.

MOPAT · Post by **MOPAT** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:59 pm

In the MOPAR MUSCLE mag I got today there is an ad for SS Brakes. They have a distribution block with a built in adjustable proportioning valve [$124-$144]. I randomly pulled up a 70 Challenger and they had a drum to disc conversion kit for 8 3/4 or 9 3/4 rearends. Kind of spendy @ $810. Might work on the D100??
http://www.ssbrakes.com

menefreghista762 · Post by **menefreghista762** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:36 pm

wideblock wrote:bout 2 weeks ago to be exact. you do not have to change the push rod. mine bolted right up without even any adjustment. but, you do have to make a plate for the fire wall to convert from the 2 hole master to the 4 hole on the fire wall. i drilled my plate out, and inserted bolts thru the back side for the 2 hole pattern, then tach welded them in place, ground off the heads where everything was smooth, so they could be used like studs. did the nut and bolt on the 4 hole pattern to the fire wall since ill never have to remove it again. plate was 5/16" ran a 67 splitter block as john did, and got lucky, mine came with the coiled lines already. then rearranged and rerun the other lines accordingly to meet up with the new splitter. mine was a bit of a hassel due to my tyruck coming with the factory hydrovac. so my factory splitter, and all my lines joined under my drivers floor board. if yours has always had manual brakes, then the splitter will be under the hood where life will be easier. if, you want to upgrade abit furthur, find a 67 booster, bracket and push rod, it bolts to the same area and also wont take any more mods then your already gonna have to do. if you need any coaching, feel free to ask. like i said, i just did this a few weeks ago to my 65 crew cab.

Sounds like too much for me to mess with right now, time is not something I have a lot of. Guess I will just rebuild the original single. Thanks for the answers though!

wide65 · Post by **wide65** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Hobcobble wrote:I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.

Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John

Any pics?

MarsMonster · Post by **MarsMonster** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:51 pm

I did this swap on my 1966 D100. New lines, new brake hoses, new wheel cylinders, 1968 master cylinder, new brakes. 1968 proportioning valve on the brake lines. The one thing I am not happy about is the fact that my master cylinder push rod is too long for the application. I ended up shimming my master away from the firewall about half an inch just to get the truck road worthy again.

I have a 1967 D200 power brake booster that I plan on installing, to replace my dual resevior master. The power brake booster has an adjustable push rod. Only problem I have with going this rout is that the master cylinder on the D200 model uses larger brake fittings than the D100 application. I will have to remove the 1967 D200 master from the power brake booster and replace it with a NOS 1967 D100 dual resevior master.

Mars

Website · Post by **wideblock** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:55 pm

mars bro, your way off. you cannot put a d200 master on a d100 truck. the bores are 1/8" different in diameter and wont swap. you will push way too much fluid to the wheel cylinders.

you also cant replace the 200 master with a 100 master. the 200 uses a 2 bolt moutning pad, the 100 uses a 4 bolt. it wont bolt to the booster. you need to use the brakcetry you got for the booster and buy a 100 powwer booster if you want it to work right.

menegfirwhatever, its not that much work. build a plate, slap on the master and reroute the lines for the new splitter block. real easy, but it is a bit time consuming.

BTW, its NOT a proportioning valve. 4 wheel drum brakes are not a proportional system.

Post by **Hobcobble** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:43 am

wide65 wrote:
Hobcobble wrote:I did this swap on my '61 D200. I used the same master
you've pictured. I took a line junction block from a
'71 W200, bought a spool of brake line, new front
hoses, new rear hose, all the fittings and ran all
new lines [double flared... of course]. I used a
push rod from a '68 D200. Remember to coil the lines
from the master to the line junction block.

Trey just went through this recently and I'm sure
the experience is still fresh in his mind. He'll
be able to help out
John
Any pics?

Any pics you're specifically in need of? Perhaps
the master cylinder to the junction block? Let me
know and I'll see what I can do.

John

Post by **Hobcobble** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:31 pm

Here are pics of my '61 D200 set up. I did it a bit
different in that I mounted the line junction block
off of the frame up on a line bracket I scavenged
from a W200. You can see the master cylinder is a 4
bolt style. As my wiring harness had no provisions
for a brake indicator light, I just left the terminal
bare. I re-did the whole brake system... shoes, lines
[cut/bent & flared my own], wheel cylinders, etc..
The drums were fine as is but I put in all new hub
seals.

John

Website · Post by **wideblock** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:50 pm

john, how are you running a 4 bolt master? all the listings i found thru 3 parts houses were all half ton with 4 bolts and 3/4 ton with 2. the bore sizes are dramatically different. unless the early trucks had smaller wheel cylinders like the half tons?? im now confused........

Post by **Hobcobble** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:53 pm

Trey,
No confusion... I used a '68 W100 master cylinder.
For a TRUE 200 Series application, the correct master
is the 2 bolt style with the plate that mounts to
the firewall. Your parts houses were telling you
right. The pic that Menegreghista762 posted looks
like the master on my '68 D200

John

MarsMonster · Post by **MarsMonster** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:31 pm

I me oh my. So sad. I was planning on putting this on my truck. Thanks for pointing out the bolt pattern. Pulled this from a 67 D200. Anyone with a complete D100 brake booster that is willing to trade up? Was aware that I needed to change out the dual resevior but never noticed the bolt pattern.

Mars

RussRoth · Post by **RussRoth** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:14 am

Shoot Mars, that is only the second one of those get-ups I have seen. The first one I grabbed and put on my rig.

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:03 am

I can't say that I'm positive of this, but I'm pretty sure that all power brake trucks had two bolt master cylinders, so the 200 booster will work. I doubt that it's different from a 100 booster. At any rate, here's a master cylinder that you can use with the booster you have. This is a one inch bore, two bolt mc. Your local parts house should be able to cross reference the p/n if they don't have Wagner products. You are going to need two adapters as the non-power brake line fittings are different. From memory, it looks like the pushrod on your booster is a longer than a 100 uses so you might have to shorten it.

Website · Post by **wideblock** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:24 pm

there is a difference. like i stated before, the 100 masters are a 1" bore, the 200 masters are 1 1/8" bore. if you are runng a 100 master on a 200 with stock wheel cylinders you will not have a pedal worth crap. it will be soft and have a ton of travel. and just the opposite if you run a 200 master on a 100 truck. ask hotrodjohn, his is like this right now. the brakes are touchy as hell and he has an extremely hard pedal. you cant mix and match masters and wheel cylinders, if you have 100 parts, kepp it 100 parts all the way thru.

john, whats the bore size on the w100 cylinder your useing?? all the ones i looked up, w or d were all listed as a 1" bore. i just cant figure out why your 200 with the larger wheel cylinders is working worth a damn with the 100 master on there. its just not making sence to me. i do have that right.... you have a w100 master on a d200 truck??? unless the 61 uses a smaller whell cylinder in the 200 series then the newer trucks did, it just isnt making any sence

digdoug · Post by **digdoug** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Remember, The 59-68 W100 has the 3/4 ton drive train.So a 67-68 w100 master would have the 1 1/8 bore. I didn't know that the 67-68 w100 used a 4 bolt flange,but I guess I do now.

Tricky,John! :salut

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:23 pm

"you also cant replace the 200 master with a 100 master. the 200 uses a 2 bolt moutning pad, the 100 uses a 4 bolt. it wont bolt to the booster. you need to use the brakcetry you got for the booster and buy a 100 powwer booster if you want it to work right."

Trey, That's not correct. A stock 100 booster uses a two bolt master cylinder. A 100 and 200 booster look just alike so my opinion is that they are the same. The Wagner cylinder in my previous post is a one inch bore, two bolt mc. You are correct that if you use a 1 1/8 bore mc on a brake system that is supposed to have a 1" bore you will not be able to stop. "Been there, tried that" and it doesn't work. My comments are correct for a 69 and later Sweptline, don't know about older models.

Website · Post by **wideblock** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:04 pm

hmmmm, in all the searching i did, i never turned up a 100 master with only 2 bolts. but, i never looked for power brake applications either. i was trying to find a 4 bolt with 1 1/8 bore. never even thought there would be a difference in the w and the d series trucks. learn somthing new every day.

Post by **Hobcobble** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:51 pm

Trey,
Here's what I know.... long ago, I replaced the
master cylinder on my '68 W100 [as Doug says, it
has the 8 lug axles...] I bought a replacement master
cylinder for it.... it matched what I took off....
which was a 4 bolt style.

When I converted my '61 D200, I bought the same style
master cylinder. I used the same diameter brake line
as was used with the line junction block I removed
from a '71 W200 [still with me?....

]. I used
the stock '61 D200 wheel cylinders [single piston
style] & installed new shoes & hardware. The brakes
have worked fine for the 5 [or so...] years I've
driven it. The pedal seems fine.... not stiff or
spongy. If I re-did another system [single to dual]
in the future, I'd most likely find a firewall plate
and use the '67 & up 2 bolt master.As I previously
stated.... for a 200 series truck like yours or
Menefreghista762, stick with the 2 bolt master and
firewall plate.
John