cams...

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:27 am

Has anyone ever used the Summit brand cams? Are they worth a sh&*? I've used summit rebadged items before and thought they were garbage, but was wondering cuz I wanna put a cam in my 383 and MP and Comp are pricey.

MountainMoparRobin · Post by **MountainMoparRobin** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:10 am

I got mine from Mancinni Racing, thier Mopar Performance dealer and cost less than the factory and have an excellant return operation, plus an excellant tech support also

JJ · Post by JJ » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:49 am

The only thing I can say is that you get what you pay for. Mancinis great if you "stay in the box" on what they know otherwise there lost. But their prices are decent and they get it to you fast. Summit could careless about Mopar and alot of the generic stuff is seconds. If you want the BEST cam for your application call Racer Brown, nothing else even comes close.

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:05 pm

does Racer Brown have a website?

Shaun · Post by **Shaun** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:32 pm

Yeah,I think it's 4secondsflat.com ,or something close. I got a cam from Jim(he's the one to talk to there)for my late poly and it was exactly what I wanted.
I'm building a 440 now and opted for a Comp cam K-kit. You can get the cam,lifters,springs,retainers,locks,double roller timing setup and stem seals for about $400.The good thing is it saves you money and it's all matched up.
I personally wouldn't go with a Summit cam.
Shaun

shaq787 · Post by **shaq787** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:33 pm

I have a Comp cam in my truck and the majority of the cams installed are Comp cams. I have never heard the summit name mentioned in the shop, the workers have a low oppinion of them.

~Alex

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:26 am

Thanks for the input, guys. I still dunno which way I'm gonna go, but I'm leanin' toward a MP .474/.474 grind. I know that's probably a bit big for stock springs, but I can upgrade those later. what do ya think?

MountainMoparRobin · Post by **MountainMoparRobin** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:48 am

fosh69
I don't think you'll have any regrets on that cam with stock springs, glad to see ya go with a Mopar Performance cam for they know Mopars better than anyone else

Summit didn't have Mopar parts for quit a few years, infact Jegs offered more Mopar items than Summit for years. Plus with Mopar Performance you get a package made by Mopar for Mopars

RussRoth · Post by **RussRoth** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:29 am

I am surprised at the negative responses about Summit. Have not used their cams but have bought from them a number of times and I have had very good service and experience with them. The 4 second flat is NOT Racer Brown. That is a Mopar racer/speed shop in Beaverton, OR. I don't think Racer Brown has a web site but I am not sure about that. If I recall correctly Racer Brown was the OEM builder of the Mopar cams or at least did R&D for them. I personally would not use the Mopar cams. They were very good in their day and will run excellent but they are still '60's technology. Camshaft technology has come a long way since then and you can enjoy a significant performance increase with similar cam stats using a modern cam. Your choice but I would pick the newer technology for no more $$. Just my humble opinion.

JJ · Post by JJ » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:50 am

Racer Brown 1-410-866-7660, call after 2pm EST to place order.
FBO (http://www.4secondsflat.com) 1-503-627-0728 anytime.

Russ is right FBO is a Mopar speed shop but he deals direct on a daily basis with Racer Brown. I've done business with Don at FBO for about 2 years and the man knows his stuff. The motors I built before ran good but there is no comparing then to now. I've used Mopar cams in the past and they work well, the Racer Brown stuff works better. He builds each one to your combanation and he will ask you about 25 questions while he has you on the phone to get the cam you need. Yes it's a little more more money but there is no comparison in the way it will run. You try it once you won't use anything else.

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:53 am

well, I'd like to use a more modern grind, but the comp grind I like is upwards of $200, while the MP I was thinking about is about $170. I know I'm gonna pay for shipping, too, so I'm looking for the best bang for the buck... I might go for a little more high-end cam down the line, but for now I'm looking for something on the affordable. I leave to AZ in two weeks to get my rig and I have to put it together in a week before I can haul it up (more like WANT to have it running before) In fact, I've been contemplating selling the Duster to help fund the build. That's a dilemma of it's own, though.

Anyhow, thanks for the input.

Russ · Post by **Russ** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:02 am

I'm also surprised at the negative comments about Summit. I've used them quite a bit and had no problems at all. I built the 440 engine that's in my truck in 2000 with parts from Summit, including their RV grind cam, and it runs and performs exactly like I wanted it to. I am very satisfied with them and if I were building an engine today that's where I'd buy my parts.
As for some of their parts being seconds, I suspect that story got started by some of their competitors, LOL. Someone might have gotten a defective part from them at one time or another but you'll never convince me that they knowingly sell inferior parts.

I don't think you'd go wrong with any of the brands that have been mentioned. Regardless of where you get it, be sure to get the grind that matches the way you want to use the engine, or you won't be satisfied. I wanted low end power and smooth idle for mine. Get the matching components, lifters, push rods, etc, and install new cam bearings. It's a good idea to degree it but not absolutely necessary. Be sure you have enough gas in the tank to run the engine as long as the instructions say, at the rpm that the instructions say, to break it in. It might be as long as 20-30 minutes at 2000 rpm. If you don't break it in per the instructions you can't blame the manufacturer if it fails.

MountainMoparRobin · Post by **MountainMoparRobin** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:39 am

Mopar Performance cam grinds aren't old grinds, they are very active in the speed technology and if ya take a look at things now they are starting to reproduce everything for the older vehicles because they now realize (2004) the market for the parts http://www.mopar.com we've come to an age where the manufactures are starting to recognize the parts industry will keep them profitable and they see the following of the older vehicles. I think you should get parts from where ever you can, I have bought parts from Summit, not a good experiance, but they do have a Mopar "Pro Stock" car now also, everyone will have a different experiance, but they did start with the name brands first, I just preferred the grind from Mopar Performance and have had a very good performance from it and like the research and development they have done, they made the 440 and they made a great cam for it, I really enjoy the cam and the driving experiance with the cam

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:54 am

I tend to agree with you, Robin. However, I notice quite an array of grind selection from Comp, and was just curious how they live up to their advertising. Most of their cams recommend the use of their springs and for now, I'm looking for a cheaper method (want to use stock springs)... actually, the heads are off a mid-late 70's 400 out of a Cordoba. I had them checked for cracks and all the springs checked as well as valves. They are 457 cast open chamber heads, but the plan is to use the ones that came off the 383 eventually (409's I think), with a complete work over.

I also have a brand new set of Comp springs PN 901-16. Does anyone know the performance of the stock 400 springs (i.e. rates)? would it be a good idea to swap the dual-spring Comp springs in place of the single stockers? I beleive they're the same diameter.

JJ · Post by JJ » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:19 pm

I don't want anyone thinking I'm downing Mopar Parts at all, I'm not. I've used the 284/484 cam it is a good one. The even have a updated version (tighter lobe seperation) for better drivablity. However the Racer Brown cams are ground for YOUR combonation not someone elses. Your vehicle weight, how much compression you have, your T.C stall speed ect. That's why they work so well. Anyway the down side is that it takes 2 to 3 weeks to get one

. You can get the MP stuff in less then a week from Mancini. Anyway my advice for what ever it it worth is to not go much more then the stock magnum cam. That way the springs and torque convertor won't be a factor. The cam is won't work worth a damn if the other components aren't matched.

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:27 am

well, Ithink I've made a decision. I'm gonna try the MP 450/458 grind. I'm spending more than a summit cam, but after contemplating the operating ranges and grind selection, I think this one will be a good start. I plan on running the cast iron 4bbl manifold and the heads I mentioned already with a set of long tube headers. That is, until I can get the original heads redone and then I may give Racer Brown a call. Thanks for the info fellas!

JJ · Post by JJ » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:55 am

That cam should work prety well. In regards to headers if you are in a hurry you may just want to stick with your stock manifolds for now. Below is a reply to a Pm I got when another member asked me about the exhaust on my truck and what I had to do to get the Hedman hedders I bought to fit. The work great now but they didn't out of the box. The fitment was for '72 up 2 wheel drive with big block auto,Hedman part number #79820.
[I was told that Hedman is having a lot of stuff made in Mexico now and there are some quality control issues. There sure were with these. The welding was great, no leaks, the ceramic coating was great and I had no problems with it even with breaking in a new motor. The problems were that the fittment to the chassis was bad in the aspect that you need to trim the crossmember(not much just a little) in front of the tranny (keep in mind these are suppose to fit '72 models and up not our trucks) and they hit the driverside motormount (but I was using Schumaker Creative services mounts, I don't think they would hit a stock mount). The collectors ended up right in front of the back crossmember. The solution to that was cutting the collectors and weilding on standard flanges. My exhaust guys then used mandrel bends to get where they needed to be. The other thing that was sort of disturbing was the right side hedder hit the block down by the transmission and the deep tranny pan also. I little bit of dinging and a large pry bar fixed that though. I will say this, if Hedman had my set of hedders as a template the install would take all of about 10 minutes! They slip in and out that easy. The exhaust was a headache to get done but the results were well worth it in sound and the way the truck runs. Keep in mind also that your 383 is 3/4th of a inch lower then my 440 so that may fix part of the problems around the crossmembers. Good luck with it J.J.

fosh69 · Post by **fosh69** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:23 pm

Thanks, JJ. the only reason I'm going with the headers is I have a set my dad gave me (for a later model truck as well)... I'm sure I'll have to massage them into fitting also. I may go a different way later on, but for now my goals are: 1. get it together 2. get it running 3. get it to my garage in Colorado. I have a lot of work to do on it, so I likely won't be making any meets in it this year.

RussRoth · Post by **RussRoth** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:47 am

I have to respecfully disagree with the statement that MOPAR has kept their cams current. I will admit to going off memory here although I still have the old catalogs from the 60'sand 70's (yeah, I'm a packrat

) and could look it up. I believe the part #'s are the same ones I have been looking at for 30 plus years. Chrylser typically would change #'s when any kind of change was made so this really lends credence to the idea the cams are the same old grinds. Having said that, Andy Fienkbeiner from over here in Tigard, OR did some dyno testing several years ago with several different cams on his BB. One of the Mopar cams stood right there with the best of them. I don't recall which cam it was right now though.

Here is some reading from Moparts on this subject which may be helpful.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/sho ... ost2489079