slant six/3speed to 4 speed?

[CLIFF]

was wondering which fully sychronised 4 speeds would directly bolt up to my bellhousing? I have the slant six 225, 3 on the tree. Would my hydralic clutch setup have to be changed?

[Jeffc]

Out of a car? NO, have to use a car bell with a car 4 speed..... out of a truck? maybe, depends on what year the 4 speed is from........

[PwrWgnWalt]

Cliff;

I don't believe there are any "fully synchronized" 4 speed tranny's that will bolt up directly. However, the NP 420 and NP 435 4 speeds found in these pickups should bolt right to your existing bellhousing. The 1st gear on these is not synchronized, but most will probably tell you they rarely (if ever) use 1st gear, anyway.

No, you won't need to mess with your hydraulic clutch. It is entirely independant of your transmission choice. Now, you may want/need to get a different clutch disc to fit the input shaft of the 4 speed you use...

Of course - as always - if I'm in error, someone please correct me...

PwrWgnWalt

[CLIFF]

whats the differance between NP 420 and the NP 435...gear ratios? this is what iam wanting to do keep the slant 225 but upgraded to offy four barrel intake and a holly 390cfm, hotter cam, pertronix igniton with a Jacobs unit i have lying around. exnay the 3 speed and go with a four speed. And suregrip 3.23 rear. All in shortbox 67 d100! ought to run like a small block i would think!...whats youall opinion?....thanks...Cliff

[rock]

Cliff,

My '64d100 has A833OD,Howe hydro bearing with Tilton slave, sure grip 3.91, pertronix, offenhauser, edelbrock 500cfm, cam, big valves, ported, milled, decked, disc brakes, dutra dual exhaust, and lots more... it all works well together. YOu can bolt the A833 up to the truck cast iron "universal" bellhousing, or get the aluminum one with the large input bearing retainer hole. Aluminum has clutch fork on driver side, cast iron has fork on passenger...be careful!
rock
64d100

[wideblock]

the 833 would be a better choice for a street truck. gear spread is much nicer then the 420 or 435. only minor floor mods need to be made for it to fit just right. but since you have a 3 speed, youll have to just cut the hole in the right spot in the first place. if you have a bench seat, depending on the year of tranny you might have shifter probs. but a torch solves that real fast.

[Jeffc]

Cliff,

My '64d100 has A833OD,Howe hydro bearing with Tilton slave, sure grip 3.91, pertronix, offenhauser, edelbrock 500cfm, cam, big valves, ported, milled, decked, disc brakes, dutra dual exhaust, and lots more... it all works well together. YOu can bolt the A833 up to the truck cast iron "universal" bellhousing, or get the aluminum one with the large input bearing retainer hole. Aluminum has clutch fork on driver side, cast iron has fork on passenger...be careful!
rock
64d100

Rock,
you better tell what mod's you did to make a A833od to
work, it's not just a bolt-up to the bell, car trans? truck trans (they made both), clutch type 10 spline or 23 spline????....... He will need more than just "it will work"........

[CLIFF]

hey rock ,

yes please give some detail on what i need to get and do to make this happen. I have access to a few 833's and would love to put one in my 67 D100 shortbed.

[rock]

Howdy Cliff,

WEll my apologies to you and Jeffc...I really shoulda told you more! There is enough involved that I am finishing making a CD of the conversion like the rebuild one already for sale on the forum. I have several hundred pics of details, because I decided to do engine, clutch, bellhousing, tranny, linkage, drive shaft and rear end, axle housing and axle and brake swaps. To cut to it, what you want to do minimally is very easy. Not to be a topic abuser, but I have at least one of everything you would need, in superb shape and would likely sell it. I had to get two sets because I made a mockup for photo purposes...thus the spares are as clean as new, too! But I digress..I would suggest the A*## overdrive with a 3.91 rear end. THe gear ratio is sweet. Depending on your tires you will be at about 2300 rpm at 70mph in 4th and 2000 at 60. You need an aluminum 833 bellhousing with the large (5.125) input bearing retainer hole. You need the clutch fork and its pivot and boot. There are 2 kinds of forks, varying in clip to internal ball stud in BH, but both are ok. The BH bolts directly to block and the tranny of course bolts right to BH. I had so much trouble getting the right shifter rods for my Hurst Competition Plus shifter that I eventually bought several hundred dollars worth and made notes as to the proper length ones to use for each shifter mount plate..chevy, mopar and dodge truck. I had to do this because I bought the shifter separate with no rods. I would be glad to advose you off list if you PM me, because I actually could write a book about this swap and as I say,have hundreds of pics. I used chrome and stainless bolts, a mini starter and so on.
Oh, does it work? OH YEH! Also you should burrow into the slantsix forum at http://www.slantsix.org/forum/index.php ... 27ce77bc88

Along with others, I, under name rock have added a year's worth of discussion to this topic.

Good luck!
rock
'64d100
(Raleigh NC if you are nearby)

[rock]

Cliff,

I forgot to say I used an 11 clutch with the 23 spine input shaft. Not all crankshafts are equal..I used a block from ebay seller Robzet that was superb, and I think it was a '72 forged crank. THe hole in its rear is machined deep enough for the A833 input shaft AND has been bored enough to add the critical needle bearing you must have into which the input shaft slides and rides in the crank. Very simple though, and info is on slant six site about this. Earlier cranks were not always 'finished" for the needle bearing. Also I used a hydraulic throwout bearing and a slave cylinder because the A833 bell has its fork on the driver side, whereas my truck cast iron "universal" BH 2235714-2 had it on driver side with a slave over there. Like all good truck addicts I started out to do just what you say you want to do, , then thought well why not a new engine, then....polydollars more!

Cheers!

[Jeffc]

Good info, thanks, but as I suspected the 833 will not
bolt to the truck bell, or do I have that incorrect?
since said "you will need a 833 bell", or do you need parts off the bell only?

Of course, if you follow the line of thought here, if you use the 833 bell you will also need the rear trany hanger since the later bell will not mount to the frame crossmember that was used in the 61 to 68 trucks.......

[rock]

Howdy Jeffc,

I am told the 833 will bolt directly to the "universal" bell between my A745 and engine. Casting number is 2235714-2, the one with the angled "hips" like are on a poly 318 bell. I can't confirm because I kept mine together like a big tooth and root, but when the weather warms up a tad more I am going to confirm it for sure for the slant six gang.

As to crossmembers and tranny mounts, you will find an extended discussion about this on the slant six forum. Reason is because, yes, you do need to fabricate tranny crossmember and on the other forum we discussed a while about whether the new member should be at tranny rear, at bell/tranny juncture, or both. I opted for both since trucks have the mid block mounts, then the ones at the tranny/bell where the "hips" are..but I wanted even more security because my slant six has more power than a 318. And when I finish its fuel injection and blower swap, it will really need some torque control on the tranny end.

Making cross members is not hard at all..in fact so easy I just didn't think to mention it. Choose whatever you have at hand, square section tube, round tube or channel, all mild steel. Measure where your yoke is before the swap and locate it in 3 dimensions, too. Because the driveshaft will likely have a changed length after the swap, you need to approximate the shaft angle down to the differential after you have the new tranny in. That angle is important. I located mine with a piece of plywood cut as a template against the cab floor and the frame sides.

After that,and after surveying tranny mounts you can obtain readily such as the one for a A904, just cut and weld up a crossmember and add on the mount. Again, it may be helpful to mock up a crossmember with plywood if you want to pay someone to weld it up.

As to apparatus on the BH, I am assuming you are asking about the "Z-bar" and its ball stud, since I mentioned you should grab the fork, pivot stud and boot. I got it all, but didn't use any, because adding in the hydraulic TO bearing made all else redundant. The strike on a tilton 3/4 inch cylinder is 1 inch. YOu can mount it in place of the existing clutch master cyl, just space so you have a 1 inch stroke from the stock pushrod left after pulling old clutch master cyl. I used a inverted flare an -3 to an -4 adapter in the cylinder to a an -4 braided line to the howe TO bearing. You could as well use a Wilwood pull cylinder to the fork if you use the fork and a conventional TO bearing. In that case, my truck installation measured a fork throw length of 1 3/8 inches, I believe from relaxed to fully released clutch disc using a borg warner 11 inch stock clutch.
Honestly, I would have used the pull cylinder and conventional fork if I had known about pull cylinders, but you still need a clutch master cyl to operate the pull. My old clutch master cyl had always leaked at the lid so I was just getting rid of it. A pull cyl is $55, a tilton master is about $75 new, and the howe was $175. I had about $225 in hydraulics as opposed to $55 or $55 + $75...but both feel good. All I really wanted was to use the old slave I have stock, but didn't want to invest the effort in laying under the truck studying out a way to mount that slave on the aluminum bell...maybe I should, but you know, you go down a path and hate to stop!! In other words, what I did seemed easier to me than trying to move the stock slave from passenger side to driver.

Hope this helps!
rock
'64d100

[Jeffc]

Thanks, that fills the picture a little better.
I am not going to do this to one of my trucks, but
who knows, it may happen sometime down the road.
It is mainly for others that read this and want more info, sometimes knowing what to ask is important
since it may not come to mind in others (since we
have a lot of "newbes" that may not know these trucks as well as "some of us"......

I have a friend local to me that has a 67 that put
a later 23spline np435 rear hung with bell in (linkage bell-driver side), was a auto truck with cut crossmember,
and rigged it to use the hydro clutch system, just hung a mount off the bell bolts for the slave and works just fine. Anything is possable with a little work.....

[rock]

Cliff,

I got a note from a forum member who didn't get a PM of mine...did you get the one I sent you on March 20? You can call me if you want

rock
'64d100

[cowboy]

I did this change in my 71 /6 had to change the bell Housing , & that was all , But I knew that was it But your going with the wet clutch , cliff I used the factory shifter that came with the A833 od & kept my bench seat , had to cut a small hole just in front of seat , on the side -top of floor , I then used a boot & boot plate from a 3 spd floor shifter , & just bent it in half to fit right ( L shape)
Rock you have a PM

[CLIFF]

Rock......sorry i didnt think i got one back from you but i just checked again and it was there. Somehow missed it!....ill be callin you soon!!

Cowboy.....Did you start with a fourspeed truck to begin with? they werent hydralic clutch operated? "Wet clutch?" ....What setup you use for clutch operation?

[cowboy]

Cliff, I started with a manual clutch truck 3 spd, & doner truck was a 81 D100, I got just the Bell housing - trans & shifter for $150 at a junk yard , all the rest was stock 71 D100 , on the 71 it was a bolt in swap , excpt for cutting the hole in the floor

[quickgraffix]

i also have a slant 6 w 3 speed and i want to go to 318 with a 4 speed ill probably be hitting you up for some info and insight as well

[soopernaut]

i also have a slant 6 w 3 speed and i want to go to 318 with a 4 speed ill probably be hitting you up for some info and insight as well

You replied to a 16 year old thread. None of those people are active here anymore. JeffC posts once in a blue moon but has a different name. None of those other posters have visited this site in many years. Some may not even be alive anymore.

[quickgraffix]

daaang well how did yours turn out