I think I'm tossing the Carter 2 barrel

[712edf]

Vehicle is 1975 W600 with the original 318-2v, mileage is 63,000. It's a former DOT plow truck. In the past it would sit for months at a time, but the previous owner said after being dormant for months he could always without fail install a charged battery, pour some gas down the carb & she would fire right up.

I have owned it almost 12 years. I used to drive it every few days, but that is impractical now. But I do start it pretty religiously every week. And it has gotten to be more of a burden.

Batteries only last about 3-4 years. This is no surprise to me.
I put only ethanol free gasoline in it.

About 3 years ago I was having issues getting gas to the carb. Replaced all the rubber lines & went through 3 or 4 Chinese fuel pumps in a very short period of time before getting one the worked & didn't leak into the crankcase.

My starting procedure went from just pumping the accelerator & cranking until she fired to now pouring in some gas first, just to save the battery/starter. But now even that is not enough.

I rebuild the Carter carb about 2 years ago. I believe it to be original. It always ran decently (once warm. Manual choke) before & after the rebuild, but starting has gotten iffy & nothing seems to change it.

Last week I removed the fuel inlet needle to make sure it wasn't sticking. I'm getting good pressure to the carb but have not put a gauge on it. Once I got it started it ran fine, but I didn't drive it.

This morning I raised the hood, poured some gas down it & expected no problems since I gave it the attention I did last week. But nope, no good. After several attempts of adding gas, crank, fire, then spuddering to death I decided to pop the top off of the carb.

(A) The bowl has very little gas in it. It shouldn't be this dry after having run for 1-2 seconds for multiple times. Later today after church I will crank & see how much fuel is coming out of the line.
(B) The accelerator pump "cup" is mutilated/distorted. I would have expected it to last longer than it did.

I have considered switching to an electric fuel pump, or at least a good Carter/Holley mechanical pump.

I never liked to design of Carter (or Autolite, Rochester, Strombergs) 2 barrels. Holley 2300 series have a lot less moving parts & you can still buy parts for them.

Or I could sell the vehicle. I only need for 3 days a year in February when we get our now annual blizzard. I'm too old to be climbing up into it anyway.

Bucky

[martincom]

(A) The bowl has very little gas in it. It shouldn't be this dry after having run for 1-2 seconds for multiple times. Later today after church I will crank & see how much fuel is coming out of the line.
(B) The accelerator pump "cup" is mutilated/distorted. I would have expected it to last longer than it did.

(A)I would agree, I'd expect the float bowl to be full, as well. Did you check to see if the needle was stuck in the seat? I'm also wondering if you have something collecting around the pickup screen, in the fuel tank. Your joshing the truck before may have stirred it up where it cleared, when you had good volume from the fuel pump.

(B) I source my Carter parts from Mike's Carburetor. He does a good job of weeding out the sub-standard parts. You can purchase accelerator pump plunger separately form him. https://www.carburetor-parts.com/

[712edf]

Last week I removed the needle & seat assembly. Had them working fine. If they got stuck again within a week then obviously there's other issues.

I am getting good pressure from the pump & have a inline filter just after the pump, to catch any solid debris before it gets to the needle/seat. It's possible for water & such to get through but there was very little liquid in the bowl. And I did a ton of cranking & starting so it does point to a needle seat issue for the bowl not filling. I wouldn't think the bowl would evaporate so much in a week's time even in this wretched Texas heat.

I have heard of Mike's before. And if I chose to keep this carb or replace it with another Carter BBD I will contact him. I'm not totally against going back with this design of carb but I suspect all the ones offered now are cheap knock offs. Not sure if they'll last longer than having mine rebuilt.

I think switching to the Holley would involve other headaches. First they are expensive, many of them are out of stock & I believe they require an adaptor due to different bolt pattern on the base.

Working on this truck is in itself a nightmare. It requires a stepladder to reach & the truck won't fit indoors so I'm stuck working on it out in the heat, or cold depending on which of our 2 seasons we are in on that day.

Bucky

[712edf]

Due to differences in base bolt patterns I have decided to no longer consider switching to a Holley.

Looks like I am stuck with either fixing this junk or buying a knock-off brand replacement carb.

Bucky

[Wildergarten]

Working on this truck is in itself a nightmare. It requires a stepladder to reach & the truck won't fit indoors so I'm stuck working on it out in the heat, or cold depending on which of our 2 seasons we are in on that day.

My solution to that problem.

[martincom]

The BBD was built at Carter's St. Louis plant, which ceased operations in 1985. So finding the appropriate genuine Carter is a chance of slim to none.

I do believe Holley did offer a BBD replacement. I source my Holley parts and carbs from All State Carburetor. If you're set on a replacement, you might want to reach out to them. They are New Yorkers....but the exception from what you'd usually expect. Their prices are very competitive, as well. Their web page leaves a lot to be desired. It is very difficult to find things, but they stock a LOT of parts and carbs. So you may want to message them about your requirements. https://allcarbs.com/?v=920f83e594a1

[712edf]

Thanks martincom for those links. I think for now I will rebuild mine, at least partially, just to get it running. Also I think I will drain my tank. Its an in cab behind the seat rascal so not sure if I want to hassle with totally removing it for a more thorough job or just remove all gas & replace hoping all the crud washes out with the gas.

Removing the tank itself doesn't bother me, nor the seat. But dealing with the filler neck & the lines, connections makes me leery because if I damage anything I doubt there are any replacements.

Of course I'm not going to accomplish much until this 100 degree heat passes.

Bucky

[712edf]

well my fuel pump is working well enough to cause a slight engine fire
All that oil, grease, leaves & gunk atop the intake are flammable. The wiring is too.
Stupidity adds excitement to my day.

Bucky

[PwrWgnDrvr]

Sorry about all the bad luck with the Carter Bucky!
I've never had any issues like that with mine. Had the factory carter on my first 70 W200, manual choke, ran it w/o issue from 1978 - 1988, more than 200,000 miles. My 62 W300 came to me in 1983 with the factory carter, manual choke. It was my daily driver 1988-1998 and occasional use ever since. Sometimes it sits a couple yrs w/o starting it. That carb has only had an accel pump replaced once in the last 40 yrs, no other work and it starts up easily to this day. Of course it needs priming when float bowl is dry, but even the leather pump still functions. I've put over 200,000 on that truck also.
That's just 2 of the many mopars Ive had with that carb over the last 50 yrs with no issues. Wish I had that luck buying lottery tickets!

[712edf]

Thanks,

And I don't think its a Carter design issue. The previous owner had the truck from mid 90s until 2011 & I don't think he had much if any issue with it. He would let the truck sit on the mountain side for months at a time between starts.
The truck was trustworthy when I got it too. But I in the past 4 or so years I just don't drive it much out on the road. But I tried to start it weekly, in fact it has never gone un-started for more than 3 weeks while in my possession.

Like I mentioned earlier I put only non-ethanol gas in it. But even then it gets old. I can tell by the smell. The fuel sender is bad too, so I check level with a rubber hose down the tank.

Part of my not driving it anymore is due to all the headache involved. I either keep it parked in my back yard, which involves taking it through a dilapidated gate. Or if it's in the driveway I have to deal with wheel chocks because of the incline & horribly weak parking brake. Truck is un-drivable until engine is fully warm, no matter the air temp. Then I just flat @#% don't trust it. It's died at traffic lights before, causing danger & embarrassment as I have to jump out, pop hood, pour gas down it then hope to hell I got the mixture correct & enough crank to get it running. This thing already draws enough attention without it breaking down. And you just don't push a 9800 lb vehicle through an intersection.

If it's never not 100 effing degrees around here I will now remove much of the wiring harness to see which wires got melted or burnt. Just thankful it didn't get any larger than it did. But overall its approaching the point where the frustrations outweigh the enjoyment.

Bucky

[martincom]

If you're utilizing a rubber hose to check fuel level, that maybe your problem. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, my step-father had a tree service. One of our dump trucks was a '54 Chev with the tank behind the seat. We'd get hit by the fuel thieves on a pretty regular basis, as it was easy to get a siphon started from that tank. We had trouble getting the truck started and when we did, it would lurch from time to time. It finally became bad enough I had to dig into it. The problem was scraping from the thieves' siphon hose would collect around the pickup. Every time they pull the hose out, some would scrape off around the roll at the top of the filler neck, for the fuel cap.

Your truck sound like it would be near unstoppable, when it is running correctly.

I can sympathize with what you're going through. Back in the early '80s, I did field service for a Motorola shop in central FL. Some our biggest customers were open pit lime rock mines. So I was frequently servicing and installing radio equipment in heavy earth movers and big heavy haul CAT dump trucks. Everything was a climb and everything was sloppy and slippery as they utilized a lot of water to soften it up and keep the dust down. Of course, it was hotter than hell, humid, and downpours would happen all of a sudden, a half dozen times a day, during the summer.

[nutz]

i would think a good electric fuel pump
and a clear fuel filter would save a lot of climbing
that way you can prime the carb before ever turning the key
and with a clear fuel filter you can see if your pumping and if there is junk in the system

[PwrWgnDrvr]

It sounds like a problem I dealt with a couple decades ago on a different W300. There was a ton of crud in the tank because..... I got the truck at GSA auction in Nevada from the BLM. They used it to haul hay across the desert to feed the wild mustangs. That tank was so damn loaded with fine silt from the desert dust and hay dander. It would plug in line filters instantly and get past the sock on the pickup. When left sitting, the silt would settle to the bottom of the filter and tank, so it would run ok for a while, until road jostling stirred everything up. Then it would restrict the filter and little to no fuel would get thru - just like your W600 dying at red lights. Can't fix a tank full of crap with filters, they don't have the capacity. If you pull the sender you can see what's in the tank with a flashlight. What body style is your truck, the Life Style?

[Wildergarten]

It sounds like a problem I dealt with a couple decades ago on a different W300. There was a ton of crud in the tank because..... I got the truck at GSA auction in Nevada from the BLM. They used it to haul hay across the desert to feed the wild mustangs. That tank was so damn loaded with fine silt from the desert dust and hay dander. It would plug in line filters instantly and get past the sock on the pickup.

Besides rinsing out the tank, an alternative solution is to install a canister filter with more capacity, preferably a clear one. That way, one can drain the filter of the crud periodically and thus extend the purging process without the tank removal job.

Available here: https://www.zoro.com/fill-rite-clear-bo ... 4cQAvD_BwE

[712edf]

Body is a Lifestyle.

My "clear" inline filter isn't really clear enough to see dirt, but I can tell if is has liquid in it. It's getting replaced along with the rest of the system.
Farm equipment has some pretty need set-ups for visible fuel filtration.

I have considered an electric pump. But I also can envision on hellacious fire getting out of hand if something went wrong. I feel once I get this issue straight I won't be needing to pop the hood or climb ladders to get it started.

I didn't get to touch the truck today. After my daily 9 hour @#% beating at work we travelled 45 miles round trip to one of our grandson's school for Grandparents night. They're only little once.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Bucky

[Wildergarten]

I have considered an electric pump. But I also can envision on hellacious fire getting out of hand if something went wrong. I feel once I get this issue straight I won't be needing to pop the hood or climb ladders to get it started.

In terms of durability, the 318 fuel pump cam setup is vastly superior to the big block, but with one proviso: When bolting the eccentric drive cup along with the timing gear onto the end of the cam, one must be sure to make the Woodruff key penetrates as far into the pressed steel fuel pump drive-cup as possible (yes, I've endured that failure; it should have been a straight key with an engagement that short).

[712edf]

I wouldn't think it would take much of a pump to supply gas to this little carb. My biggest issue with the mechanical pumps is they puncture the diaphragm & leak, or just quit altogether. Hell my in cab tank is almost high enough in relation to the carb to just gravity feed the motor.

Bucky

[PwrWgnDrvr]

I wouldn't think it would take much of a pump to supply gas to this little carb. My biggest issue with the mechanical pumps is they puncture the diaphragm & leak, or just quit altogether. Hell my in cab tank is almost high enough in relation to the carb to just gravity feed the motor.
Bucky

Yes, they do do that Bucky. I had one that punctured the diaphragm and was squirting gas out against the exhaust pipe. Found it when I suddenly smelled gas on the freeway. Drove it about 3 miles to a parts store to get a new one. Mostly on the freeway so would coast and shut it off as much as possible, always ready to bail out and deal with "worst case". Scary as hell! One of the reasons I always had a complete toolbox in the truck.
Now with that being said, my experience has been that a couple failed pumps over the last 50 yrs is a pretty good track record and at our age, a new one now will likely be the last one we ever have to buy.

[Wildergarten]

My biggest issue with the mechanical pumps is they puncture the diaphragm & leak, or just quit altogether.

The electric pumps will feed a fire unless there is an oil pressure switch. The truck will also need a separate circuit and a push button switch in the dash to prime the carb unless you want to sit and crank while the craburetor fills. Most electric fuel pumps big enough to fill the carb rapidly are noisy as hell. They all have their benefits and drawbacks. The 318 stock fuel pump setup is a pretty good one.

[712edf]

I think that once I get the tank clean & the carb rebuilt then I shouldn't need to do any manual priming unless the vehicle sits longer than a week.
A properly working stock mechanical pump is plenty good for my pitiful 318. It does see high RPM's when going through those low gears but I'm hoping to fix any laying down in gear conditions.

Bucky