Engine advice

[Drummerdad]

This might be a little early, but there are some deals available for engines, and Im afraid with the push for electric, and dodge killing the V8 starting in 2023, I may have to decide now.

If you follow the build of Isaacs truck, I am currently using the 318 that came with the truck. I am looking at a swap later. I had thought I was dead set on a 5.7 hemi swap, but there is something about a 440 sitting in there that makes me giddy. I need advice from those who own either of these engines in these trucks. Here is my list of pros and cons for each-

5.7 Hemi-
Pro- Modern fuel injection and good fuel economy
- Its a solid engine ( I daily drive one in my Charger, and I love it)
- It makes good power, and can make great power. 390 h.p. if you get the right years, and with a cam and tune it can get really close to 500 h.p.
Cons- Its expensive. The prices are going up also. 2-3k for a high mileage used one.
- One of the pros, the fuel economy, would probably have to go, as I would have to get rid of the displacement on demand.
- Parts are stupid expensive. All of them. Nothing is cheap on these engines.
- Wiring would be involved. I would have to get a stand alone system (that is also expensive) I can do it, but it would be more difficult

440
Pro- Its a big block Mopar. I could stop there, but I wont
- Parts are cheaper. Not small block cheap, but cheaper than the Hemi
- The torque. From what I have read, these things are beasts.
- There is something about keeping a conventional carbureted engine in an old truck.
Cons- Its heavy. I have been a little worried about the all iron 318, with the massive bellhousing and NP435 trans being so heavy. Probably not a big
deal though. I do worry about the a-arms.
- Gas mileage. If I had to guess, it might get 10, on a good day. With gas prices going crazy like everything else, it might not be wise.
- Fitment. I know it fits, but I have an IFS and a small block, and there is plenty of room.

Feel free to add to the list. I own a 5.7 hemi, but not a 440. I almost bought a car with a 440 as my first car, in a super bee (I think), but my dad refused to buy it. He said it would kill me. Im just trying to keep options open, but for the cost of a 5.7 hemi ($3k and up, add another $2500 for extras like oil pan, and stand alone harness and computer), I think I could get a 440, add a cam, intake and carb, and have it running for less.

For what its worth, I dont know what transmission Ill use. It depends on how well the NP435 works, and if we like it. If we do, Ill be looking at a splitter from gear vendors. If we hate it, we will be looking at a T56.

[my5thmopar]

I think it boils down to what you want the truck to be. If it is a traveling truck, a SB LA or hemi, seems to be in order. Gas milage is a concern. I have a 5.7 in my regular cab Ram and only get 14-15 mpg with 3.92 gears. It is a blast to drive. I can add to the 440 discussion. Before I changed gears from the 3.91, it was pretty nasty in my 64 Utiline with a 727. I have a stock 76 440 from a truck with a torque cam. It would get away from you real quick. A 440 is heavy at about 675 lbs but, it's a Sweptline so, plenty of room. I'm using a front sump but, I think with IFS a rear sump would be in order. Aluminum heads and a few accessories would reduce the weight. Why not efi? may help with drive ability and probably gas mileage. I really think any of the engines will be around for a long time. Good discussion. Craig

[Wildergarten]

If you follow the build of Isaacs truck, I am currently using the 318 that came with the truck. I am looking at a swap later. I had thought I was dead set on a 5.7 hemi swap, but there is something about a 440 sitting in there that makes me giddy. I need advice from those who own either of these engines in these trucks. Here is my list of pros and cons for each-

Modern oils do not have the zinc phosphate additive, so they eat flat tappet cams without it. To avoid that, the 440 would need a roller, which is an extra grand. You can get the additive for the oil (not cheap), until the EPA bans it for whatever reason, so that's a risk.

I hav heard that the later 5.7 hemi has https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdZuni-tp4U a reputation for bad cam oiling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdZuni-tp4U, and I don't know if there's a fix without going a long way in.

Have you considered the sound? A healthy big block definitely adds a thrill there. Yeah, it eats gas.

[BigBlockTrucks]

As far as the displacement on demand goes. I had chevy’s version of it in my Tahoe. When I deleted it the mpg hardly changed. And with the tune it has about 30 more HP.

[Drummerdad]

I get 17.5 in my charger in the city, no matter how hard I drive it. It can get 22 mpg on the highway. The 5.7 does have oiling issues. Every engine I have seen with DOD has oiling issues. I had a suburban that ate its own cam, and then lost its oil pump. The EGR on the early 5.7s is also aggressive, so there is a lot of blowby. And the tolerances on the new 5.7s prevent you from running synthetic oils. I ran it for awhile and had nothing but trouble. I talked to some guys and they said never run synthetic in these engines.

Otherwise I guess I got excited when I found a running 440 from a 71 cordova (?) for $1500. I went straight to look at cams and intakes. I could have a nice 440 for about $3k. Thats less than the 5.7 from a junk yard.

I also forgot the 5.9 magnum. Thats a pretty good engine too. They can be had cheap, and fixed up for less than the 440 and the 5.7.

The truck will be a cruiser if I get my way. I have no plans to really pull anything, except maybe a very small camper or trailer. It wont see any competition expect maybe a trip or two down the drag strip. The goal is to go to Hot Rod power tour with both trucks, and go on the long haul. Then we can get some other shows like the F100 nationals, and some Mopar and truck shows. Not to compete, just to hang out with like minded people.

[BigBlockTrucks]

Bang for your buck,the 5.9 is the way to go!
I am going with the 440 in mine. This is mostly because it was bought cheap and so was the bell housing and flywheel. Also it’s about the wow factor for me. Nobody seams to get excited when they see a small block under the hood.

[sixpak340]

My '70 D300 came with a 318 with the four speed.

I have two 440s stored here, one '68 and one '70.

The 318 in the truck stays. :-)

[Seanreisk]

I think you failed to list the biggest con of the 440: a lack of modern transmissions.

If you want a standard transmission and you don't care about a hydraulic clutch (because the hydraulic clutch for a big block is its own wallet-twisting can of worms) you can easily bolt up an NP435. That gives you four speeds forward. There are even a few options for changing your gearing.

If you want an automatic most of your options are going to be three-speed. That's fine for a trailer queen or a cars-and-coffee build. But if you want to do big-block truck things (a little highway driving, some hauling, some light off-roading, maybe even scare a few Camaros) you're going to discover that there aren't any combinations of three speeds forward that do it all well without compromising gas mileage. Your 440 will make enough power to cover your bases, but my buddy has a 383 W200 with a late-60s automatic, and when it's on the highway he has a serious need for some sound insulation in the cab...

It's possible to get newer standard and automatic transmissions, but all the possibilities come with a high price. You're going down the big-block rabbit hole, and it's a rabbit hole I am learning well. I dropped $5,000 on a 383 engine rebuild before I knew what kind of transmission I was going to use. If I had to do it over again I'd buy a prebuilt 360 with a stroker kit.

[Drummerdad]

Yeah I think transmission choice will be worse than engine choice to be honest. I havent driven the truck with the NP435, but I have the very low granny 1st (its in the 6.0:1 range) so its essentially a 3 speed. I know it will suck above 65 mph, if I can even get it there. I talked to gear venders at the Hotrod Power Tour, and they recommended a divorced splitter, which divides the existing gears, which would give me 2 reverse gears and 8 forward gears. At about $3k, its cheaper than a T56, or even a good built T5. And it goes behind the transmission, so the bellhousing, clutch, slave..etc all still work. I would just have to mount it, and get a driveshaft. If we like the NP435 we might do that.

Im leaning toward the 360/5.9. I dont need 500 hp, and they seem to have a good aftermarket. I figure with a cam and intake, and some fuel injection, it could make over 375 hp, and drive good on the highway with a very high split 4th (or technically 8th) gear. They are cheap, and seem to do well. The biggest complaint is cracked factory heads, but they make aftermarket heads if it becomes a problem.

The 440 seems great, and if I thought gas would get better, I might do it. But I dont see anything getting cheaper any time soon. If they have their way, we will all be driving electric toy cars in 10 years....

[Jim100]

I don't think a granny 1st gear NP-435 will limit your top speed. I had one in a D truck with a 2.94 rear and it would go 100 and then begin to want to lift off the ground.

[PwrWgnDrvr]

4th gear is 1:1, straight thru, on all the trannys, unless its OD. Top end is the same on the granny and close spaced 435's, even the 540, 727, etc.

[my5thmopar]

Yeah I think transmission choice will be worse than engine choice to be honest. I havent driven the truck with the NP435, but I have the very low granny 1st (its in the 6.0:1 range) so its essentially a 3 speed. I know it will suck above 65 mph, if I can even get it there. I talked to gear venders at the Hotrod Power Tour, and they recommended a divorced splitter, which divides the existing gears, which would give me 2 reverse gears and 8 forward gears. At about $3k, its cheaper than a T56, or even a good built T5. And it goes behind the transmission, so the bellhousing, clutch, slave..etc all still work. I would just have to mount it, and get a driveshaft. If we like the NP435 we might do that.

Im leaning toward the 360/5.9. I dont need 500 hp, and they seem to have a good aftermarket. I figure with a cam and intake, and some fuel injection, it could make over 375 hp, and drive good on the highway with a very high split 4th (or technically 8th) gear. They are cheap, and seem to do well. The biggest complaint is cracked factory heads, but they make aftermarket heads if it becomes a problem.

The 440 seems great, and if I thought gas would get better, I might do it. But I dont see anything getting cheaper any time soon. If they have their way, we will all be driving electric toy cars in 10 years....

I think you are on the right track. If I were to do it again, I would choose a 5.9 too. Craig

[Drummerdad]

So I knew the 4th gear was 1:1 on both, but I had no idea how that would work with this truck. Im not sure what rear gear I have, but I think we guessed its close to a 3.90:1 in the build thread, and it has 28" tall tires. I might lower it a little when I put a new center section in. This rearend is open, and I want a trutrac. So Ill probably also get some gears closer to 3:23. Im not sure. Im going to drive it for awhile and see what needs to be changed.

[sixpak340]

With a 318, 3.91 gear and a 28" tall tire, that sounds nearly ideal.

If you drop the rear gear too low numerically, you can drop out of the engines power band.

When that happens, economy and drive-ability (fun factor) can both suffer.

An engine operating within its power band is a happy engine.

[sixpak340]

Duplicate post deleted.

[hd4tools]

Holley has ben doing alot of parts to put the Hemi in alternate vehicles lately. Not a Swepty, but the standalone controllers and harnesses make it easier.

Look up Hot Rod TV's Engine Masters. They have been doing a bunch of 3rd Gen Hemi stuff lately. They also did a shootout on a 5.9 small block too.

The 5.9 (360) is going to be the easiest and cheapest since all your 318 stuff like trans, motor mounts, wiring ect all transfers.

Big block bell housings do exist for the NP435, but are like hens teeth to find, and would probably be more expensive than the Hemi in the long run to do.

[712edf]

Big block bell housings do exist for the NP435, but are like hens teeth to find, and would probably be more expensive than the Hemi in the long run to do.

One popped up F/S last week on Ramcharger site. It was in GA & the guy was asking $1000 & it didn't include the fork, TO, PP nor any of the other things needed.

Bucky