Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Engine, transmission, rear-end, driveline, fuel system etc..
allsupj
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Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by allsupj »

I have installed a set of early hemi block hugger headers with Bruce Toth's adapter plates on my late 65 w200. If you would like photos send me a message with your email address and I will send them. Or, I posted them on the Facebook group "Dodge Sweptline Trucks".

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by abodyjoe »

these?


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allsupj
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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by allsupj »

That is them, Did not see how to attach the photo myself.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by abodyjoe »

allsupj wrote:That is them, Did not see how to attach the photo myself.

i copied the image address from facebook and use the "IMG" codes here to post them.. :)

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by jboymechanic »

Is Bruce Toth a member here? Would love to see pictures of the early Chrysler Hemi headers to 318 Poly head adapters. How do the ports line up between the 318 poly and Chrysler Hemi exhaust flanges?

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Volksnut »

Heck I'd like to see some pix too. I may go the 302/351 header route with poly flanges...

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by jboymechanic »

Volksnut wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:01 am
Heck I'd like to see some pix too. I may go the 302/351 header route with poly flanges...
My dad actually made a set of those, but they didn't clear the motor mounts in my 1960 Plymouth wagon.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Series1Utiline »

The adapters I designed and built 5 years ago for my 302-251 Ford full-length Headers. These are (ironically) 1966 Ford Pickup headers.
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My Engine.JPG

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Wildergarten »

Series1Utiline wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:27 am
The adapters I designed and built 5 years ago for my 302-251 Ford full-length Headers. These are (ironically) 1966 Ford Pickup headers.
Beautiful job. It looks like the adaptors were shaped and drilled CNC, but were the fluid transitions done that way or just opened up and then shaped with a die grinder?
'69 W200 (thumbnail)
'68 W200 (RIP)
'68 W200 383 NP435 3.53
'67 W200 383 NP435 4.10 w overload springs, Dana 60, PTO winch & flatbed dump, racks, crane, c-air (Max)
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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

Series1Utiline wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:27 am
The adapters I designed and built 5 years ago for my 302-251 Ford full-length Headers. These are (ironically) 1966 Ford Pickup headers.

Beautiful, sitting on a wood platform. Curious what truck they are in, how the engine is mounted, what bell that is and what tranny? Obviously not a hydro bell in a pre 69, even though its a poly that ended in 66.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Wildergarten »

PwrWgnDrvr wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:09 am
Obviously not a hydro bell in a pre 69, even though its a poly that ended in 66.
It looks like the same aluminum bell that was on my 318/A833 Dart. The racing clutch I had in the car needed so much pedal force I shifted to a hydraulic linkage I'd taken off a D100 in the wrecking yard. Mounted the slave on a welded up steel plate bolted to those bosses on the side.
'69 W200 (thumbnail)
'68 W200 (RIP)
'68 W200 383 NP435 3.53
'67 W200 383 NP435 4.10 w overload springs, Dana 60, PTO winch & flatbed dump, racks, crane, c-air (Max)
Mark Vande Pol
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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Hobcobble »

Is that an aluminum plate on the rear of the bell to adapt a
different tranny to? :thinking

John

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Series1Utiline »

Sorry guys. I don't get to the site except for the (very) early morning hours...

- The adapters are completely CNC milled with the exception of tapping the threaded holes. So the transition between the poly and Ford port shapes was simple to execute.

- The wood platform is sitting on a steel frame with casters which worked out well as a cradle and also allowed me to start the engine briefly before swapping it in my 65' series1 Utiline. The bell housing shown is from a 70 340 Demon so yes, is for an A833. The adapter is what I made to adapt a Ford T-5 transmission. However, once I completed that set-up, I sold the T-5 and most of the T-5 related parts and changed to a Tremec TKO-600 (also a 5-speed) for improved torque capability over the T-5. The engine is mounted on custom mounts I made so as to lower the engine as much as I could to gain under hood clearance (a real balancing act between the hood and axle). I'm running an aftermarket clutch master and and a pull-type slave.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Wildergarten »

Series1Utiline wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:22 am
- The adapters are completely CNC milled with the exception of tapping the threaded holes. So the transition between the poly and Ford port shapes was simple to execute.
Looked like it was done on Pro-Engineer. Just curious. Is it a straight transition or did you fit a spline to paired and successive tangential arcs? Was this a matter of using photos of gaskets and measured dimensions as a template, pulling the data off a coordinate measuring machine, or just whipping out the calipers and estimating radii? Did you simply thread the aluminum or does it have inserts (I'm thinking about temperature cycling problems along with vibration)?

Kudos to you. I almost went that way with my career (checked out Pro-E when it was first introduced, but the computing power was too expensive for my employer to justify at the time (1988), but after leaving that company, I got into synthesizing chemical processes with machinery and all I needed was AutoCAD 14!

Nice job! Wish I was that far along, especially with the country falling apart. It's looking like my project could end up 1/4 finished.
'69 W200 (thumbnail)
'68 W200 (RIP)
'68 W200 383 NP435 3.53
'67 W200 383 NP435 4.10 w overload springs, Dana 60, PTO winch & flatbed dump, racks, crane, c-air (Max)
Mark Vande Pol
Wildergarten.org

Series1Utiline
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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Series1Utiline »

I used Solidworks but this could be done in several programs. Given the angle between the poly head exhaust manifold surface and that of the header flange the transition is a little "different". I made a cut from each side of the adapter using their respective port shapes and sizes and was then able to transition the 2 by revolving a chamfer between them. Fortunately a spline was not needed. I did have gaskets for each which helped but I gathered data off of the web for port dimensions, bolt and port center to center distances, etc. The larger problem by far was the angle difference between the poly head to the Ford flange and having everything in position such that the collector "fell" into the OEM cross member arcs that as I understand them are intended as exhaust reliefs.
I used 7075 for my adapters so there is a lot less concern with the threads but I'm watching over time to see if I might need to switch to studs. So far, so good with the bolts.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Wildergarten »

Series1Utiline wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:33 am
I used Solidworks but this could be done in several programs. Given the angle between the poly head exhaust manifold surface and that of the header flange the transition is a little "different". I made a cut from each side of the adapter using their respective port shapes and sizes and was then able to transition the 2 by revolving a chamfer between them. Fortunately a spline was not needed. I did have gaskets for each which helped but I gathered data off of the web for port dimensions, bolt and port center to center distances, etc. The larger problem by far was the angle difference between the poly head to the Ford flange and having everything in position such that the collector "fell" into the OEM cross member arcs that as I understand them are intended as exhaust reliefs.
I used 7075 for my adapters so there is a lot less concern with the threads but I'm watching over time to see if I might need to switch to studs. So far, so good with the bolts.
Good answer, thank you. Sounds like the process was more than a bit iterative, which is how most things eventually work out. If you know how to program for a single-point tap, then (if the studs don't work out) you can tap it with relief for the build up from a hard-coat anodizing process. That should tolerate the abrasion from a working thread against the aluminum, but then, an insert would do that too but at the structural expense of supporting aluminum. Obviously, I have no idea how close these stud holes are to other penetrations but I suspect there's not a heck of a lot of room for such. Good luck to you, and enjoyment to boot!
'69 W200 (thumbnail)
'68 W200 (RIP)
'68 W200 383 NP435 3.53
'67 W200 383 NP435 4.10 w overload springs, Dana 60, PTO winch & flatbed dump, racks, crane, c-air (Max)
Mark Vande Pol
Wildergarten.org

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by jboymechanic »

Did your T-5 adapter plate work for the TKO 5 speed? Or do they have a different bolt pattern and bearing retainer diameter?

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Series1Utiline »

No the T-5 and TKO have a different bolt pattern and retainer O.D. I went with a cast aluminum bell housing from American Powertrain which is a very nice casting that mimics all of the OEM casting with the exception of the transmission bolt pattern and the distance from the flywheel to the transmission mounting surface (to accommodate the different length input shaft of the TKO). Strangely, I do not see the American Powertrain cast aluminum bell housing offered any longer. All I have seen recently is the steel Quick Time bell housing (which is a lot more $) given it's SFI-approved.

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by jboymechanic »

Ok, good information to know. Thank you for sharing, sounds like an awesome setup. Have any pictures of everything in your truck?

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Re: Poly headers with Bruce Toth's adapters

Post by Series1Utiline »

I only have a more recent picture of the engine in the truck with an induction change. Keep in mind my truck is not restored in anyway but is in generally good cosmetic shape for its age. Most everything under the "skin" however is new or newly rebuilt.
CIMG1164 (3).JPG

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