closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

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closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:51 pm

I have a large nuckle 44 under the front of my W200. Are there any common parts that wear? I am working on rebuilding some of
it, but my chilton manual does not say much about this axle. Does anyone have a good exploded view or some kind of writen
procedure? I have not taken one apart and would rather not screw anything up :thinking .

thanks in advance
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby BigBlockDodge » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:00 am

I have not taken apart a large knuckle one, but I think it is very similar to the small knuckle one, just bigger. And I don't have any exploded views of it either, when I did mine I just took one side apart at a time, being extra careful on what I did. But once you get past the hubs and drums, it's really not all that bad. The common wear items are the bearings, bronze cones, and bearing cups. they act as upper and lower ball joints. The bearings on the bottom, the bronze cones on the top. The grease inside the knuckles keeps these things lubed up. You can still get the bearing cups and the lower bearings from almost any auto parts store. But the upper bronze cones are really hard to find and I think only Vintage Powerwagons has them. Another thing that goes bad on the knuckle assembly that some people probably neglect to replace is the felt seal and inner rubber seal on the inner side where the knuckle pivots on the axle. These two things help to keep dirt, dust, water, and any other contaniments out of the knucles and out of the bearings. But these two are also specialty items that I think you can only get from Vintage Powerwagons
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby Russ » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:24 am

I think you can still get the parts from JC Whitney. The problem is that they aren't advertised as Dodge parts, they are Jeep parts, so you have to know which ones interchange. I have read this on this forum so maybe someone who has the specifics will chime in. I got all of my Dana 44 small knuckle parts from my local Dodge dealer but that was ten years ago. They might laugh at me now if I asked for the same parts again.
Don't worry about taking it apart. Just watch what you are doing and take your time. It's not complicated. I might mention that there's two different styles of bearing nuts, at least there were on the three 44's that I had, and they use a different method of locking the nut.. One of mine, out of a 70 model, had round nuts with four notches made into it. It used a washer with a pin that locked the inner nut. The other two had hex nuts with a metal washer with a tab that you folded over a flat on the nut. It will be obvious which one you have when you look at it.

Now this is my opinion and some don't agree with it, but I think you should keep 90-140 weight oil in the knuckle or the upper pivot won't get lubricated. It depends on the universal joint in the knuckle to sling oil up on it for it's lubrication. It has a slot machined in it to allow the lube to run down through it. This means that you need to keep the seals in good shape. One of my manuals says that you should lock the hubs and drive it at least once a month for this reason. I don't average driving my truck once a month so I just leave my hubs locked all of the time.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby digdoug » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:01 pm

You can also get parts from Quad 4x4. The large knuckle seal is the same as used on Kiaser M715 jeeps D60, Dodge Highboys with the HD44, also ford 5000lb axles,also the Dodge D70,and IH D70.The main thing you want to do is NOT change the thickness of the lower shim pack. All preload on the knuckles is done with the shims up top. :Thumbsup
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:57 pm

thanks for the help, I got the drum off, The only other thing I am unsure off is the plate on top that holds the bronze cone in place
with the bolts out, should this come off easily? I took the bolts out, pryed on it a little, and it did not come up? :thinking
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby digdoug » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:21 pm

Take the spindle off,then with the axle tube supported so the knuckle is in the air,you can beat down on the top side of the knuckle(with a large rubber mallet or wood 2x4)this will raise the kingpin.You can only go till the axle u joint hits the top of the knuckle,of course( if I remember right, the ujoint on the large knuckle 44 wont fit through the hole in the end of the knuckle).You can flip it and do the same for the bottom kingpin.PB blaster never hurts to loosten rusty things up too.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby Russ » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:49 pm

This might answer some of your questions in case you haven't seen it.

axel.jpg


This is from the 69 FSM. The pin that engages the upper pivot will be splined on some axles instead of the key type as shown, but dis-assembly will be the same.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:50 am

Russ wrote:This might answer some of your questions in case you haven't seen it.

axel.jpg


This is from the 69 FSM. The pin that engages the upper pivot will be splined on some axles instead of the key type as shown, but dis-assembly will be the same.



Thanks! good information, thats what I needed. :salut
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby muddyoldman » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:39 am

good luck finding some of these parts. I am finally in the process of putting my front axle back under. I work in Fort wayne IN. where these axles were made and work with guys who know retired Dana Employees. I am still searching for some parts. Dana would let there employees take home extra and old parts after a line of axles were discontinued. there are guys around here with shops full of Dana parts,but some stuff is still hard to find. International Harvester(Navistar-my employer) used these axles in thier light duty trucks too. Vintage Power Wagons has some of these parts,but are VERY ($$$$) proud of them. My 68 W100 has a Dana 44-3f closed knuckle, and it wasn't cheap to rebuild.I had to bite the bullet and pay the vintage power wagon price for thier drag link.. here is a link to the Dana 44 manual. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5310-3.pdfr
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:07 pm

muddyoldman wrote:good luck finding some of these parts. I am finally in the process of putting my front axle back under. I work in Fort wayne IN. where these axles were made and work with guys who know retired Dana Employees. I am still searching for some parts. Dana would let there employees take home extra and old parts after a line of axles were discontinued. there are guys around here with shops full of Dana parts,but some stuff is still hard to find. International Harvester(Navistar-my employer) used these axles in thier light duty trucks too. Vintage Power Wagons has some of these parts,but are VERY ($$$$) proud of them. My 68 W100 has a Dana 44-3f closed knuckle, and it wasn't cheap to rebuild.I had to bite the bullet and pay the vintage power wagon price for thier drag link.. here is a link to the Dana 44 manual. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5310-3.pdfr


I am finding out the cost right now. :pale seals are expensive. The link you posted did not work, wrong address?

thanks for the help
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby kshallen » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:43 am

Hi All - 1st time on the forum

I am currently servicing the front dana 44-3f on my 68 w200. The passenger side u-joint grenaded, so that knuckle is apart. The outer axle shaft is toast, so the local ADCO drive line shop is hunting that down for me. The external diagnostic was steering wheel range of motion was reduced from 6 turns stop to stop to 3. The broken crosses on the u-join fell into the bottom of the knuckle, prevent the knuckle from turning all the way. I was lucky to keep the truck on the road.

The passenger side lower knuckle bearing took a hit from the grenade. I was wondering if anyone here has service the lower beating cone and what technique did you use. If you have serviced the upper bronze, I would be interested in that also, plus any parts source you may have found, especially the big spit seal and felt on the back of the knuckle. The cones actually "look" ok, but if easy changed, might as well do it now.

I also pulled the differential to service the axel seals adjacent to the diff, where the drivers side was leaking badly. The axle shaft had a stain on it where the oil was getting by, which the ADCO guy pointed out to me, and told me how to pull the diff. The diff pulled out easily with a crow bar center on the spider gear carrier and a nudge on the bar and it popped out, so no case spreader was needed. The seals went in ok, using two extra long extensions on a socket, driving the seal through the opposite axle tube, after starting them with the same socket, and a plastic hammer, being careful to not touch the diff bearing races. The new seals intergrate the guides so you have to remove them. I just pried out the oils seals using a seal pry tool, and the guides worked loose via finger pressure, but a long wood closet pole (perfect size actually) helped loosen one side it by driving it from the knuckle side.

The diff looks to be great shape, with a very nice contact pattern, after all these years BTW.

Any experience and advice appreciated, as this is the first time I've had to do a complete tear down on an axle.

Kirby
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:17 pm

kshallen wrote:Hi All - 1st time on the forum

I am currently servicing the front dana 44-3f on my 68 w200. The passenger side u-joint grenaded, so that knuckle is apart. The outer axle shaft is toast, so the local ADCO drive line shop is hunting that down for me. The external diagnostic was steering wheel range of motion was reduced from 6 turns stop to stop to 3. The broken crosses on the u-join fell into the bottom of the knuckle, prevent the knuckle from turning all the way. I was lucky to keep the truck on the road.

The passenger side lower knuckle bearing took a hit from the grenade. I was wondering if anyone here has service the lower beating cone and what technique did you use. If you have serviced the upper bronze, I would be interested in that also, plus any parts source you may have found, especially the big spit seal and felt on the back of the knuckle. The cones actually "look" ok, but if easy changed, might as well do it now.

I also pulled the differential to service the axel seals adjacent to the diff, where the drivers side was leaking badly. The axle shaft had a stain on it where the oil was getting by, which the ADCO guy pointed out to me, and told me how to pull the diff. The diff pulled out easily with a crow bar center on the spider gear carrier and a nudge on the bar and it popped out, so no case spreader was needed. The seals went in ok, using two extra long extensions on a socket, driving the seal through the opposite axle tube, after starting them with the same socket, and a plastic hammer, being careful to not touch the diff bearing races. The new seals intergrate the guides so you have to remove them. I just pried out the oils seals using a seal pry tool, and the guides worked loose via finger pressure, but a long wood closet pole (perfect size actually) helped loosen one side it by driving it from the knuckle side.

The diff looks to be great shape, with a very nice contact pattern, after all these years BTW.

Any experience and advice appreciated, as this is the first time I've had to do a complete tear down on an axle.

Kirby



I got a new lower cup and cone through napa, timken brand I believe. Remember to keep track of the shim packs and where they go. My upper bronze bushings looked ok, so I reused them, however I think vintage powerwagons sells new one. As far as the seals, my local napa found them through a supplier they were original Dana spicer parts and about 50 bucks per side. Be sure the ball part is clean all the way around or the new rubber/felt will not seal. If I remember right, for seals bearings and everything it was close $250 to do.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby kshallen » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:47 pm

Thanks for the response. I'll check Napa tomorrow. How did you get the bottom seat out (for the cone bearing) and in. Did you need a press, or just hammer and drift?
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:12 pm

kshallen wrote:Thanks for the response. I'll check Napa tomorrow. How did you get the bottom seat out (for the cone bearing) and in. Did you need a press, or just hammer and drift?


I used a hammer and punch to remove the old ones and a brass punch to install the new ones. One of mine came out relatively easy, the other was rather snug.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby kshallen » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:28 am

Mine came out easy, thanks. West Coast Differentials had all the parts in stock locally. The axle is "unobtainium", even from Dana, officially not available, so Vintage Powerwagon is sending me one for $175. They say that knuckle is not very strong and to keep the tire sizes 33 and below, FYI. To reward myself for the labor - also having them send out door and window weather seals so I don't freeze in the Sierras anymore.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby j2007 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:18 pm

kshallen wrote:Mine came out easy, thanks. West Coast Differentials had all the parts in stock locally. The axle is "unobtainium", even from Dana, officially not available, so Vintage Powerwagon is sending me one for $175. They say that knuckle is not very strong and to keep the tire sizes 33 and below, FYI. To reward myself for the labor - also having them send out door and window weather seals so I don't freeze in the Sierras anymore.


I was thinking of running 35's hopefully it will hold up.
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Re: closed Nuckle dana 44 disassembly

Postby kshallen » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:10 am

Found another problem. The splined shaft that goes inside the upper drivers side king pin cone bushing is broken at the right where the steering arm bolts to the knuckle. Vintage Power wagon does not have either the splined shaft or the steering arm. This is the 3000 lb closed knuckle on a 68 w200 BTW. So unless someone knows a source, I need to find a machinist who can make one, or live with it. The way it broke left a "key" so I can reassemble it and the shaft is supported by the bore in the knuckle. If I bolt on the steering arm with the "key" aligned, the whole knuckle tightens up and feels fine. Turns side to side fine and same preload as the other side. Not sure if this was broken all along or broke in disassembly, as a hammer was needed to get the steering arm off the knuckle. I can't see why assembling as is won't work, since the shaft is well supported in the knuckle, until I find a replacement. Anyone with some thoughts on this or sources of either parts or machinist who can make a new one?

Every thing else is done and waiting for a replacement passenger side axle from VPW. The first one they sent out had 32 splines and dimensions didn't match up either, but they have the correct on on the way now.
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