Switching a 4 speed manual to a 5 in a 1967 W200?

[Johns67]

HI!~It has been a long time since I have been on this site.
I bought a 2001 extended SLT Dakota (4x4) and put a crate 4.7L engine in it....and I love that truck.
Was wanting to know if anyone ever put an Dakota 1994-2004 NV3500 (5 speed Manual trans) in an old 1967 D200 that has been switch to a 4x4?
Right now it has a LA 318 (the original engine, but beefed up).
Any information about the installation would be greatly appreciated or if you can think of another 5 speed that would work better, let me know.

Also I just hate the front end (Dana 44 -4.09) and want to get rid of it, for a newer style with disk brakes.
I already have the master cylinder vacuum booster on the drum brakes because after the switch to 4 wheel drive it wouldn't stop well.
Would it still be a Dana 44 4.09, but without those balls filled with gear oil.
I know some people really like that old front end, but I don't.
Maybe I can get one out of a newer Ford or Dodge in a junkyard.

Thank you!~I know it's not a real Power Wagon, but I never said it was.
John

[Wildergarten]

Also I just hate the front end (Dana 44 -4.09) and want to get rid of it, for a newer style with disk brakes. Would it still be a Dana 44 4.09, but without those balls filled with gear oil. I know some people really like that old front end, but I don't.

The D44 is only good for 3000# (3500 for the big knuckle), and the bare truck puts almost that much load on it. The turning radius is poor, and so are the brakes. Closed knuckle axles are said to be better for water.

There's always a Dana 60. It'll cost you a bundle too, if you can find one (I paid $1,500 for mine). The steering arm conversion is non-trivial. Most guys who do it go to a crossover, which then involves frame modifications and a steering box. Be careful what you wish for.

[PowerMan]

First thing to consider is overall length of the transmission and how much room you have in between the transmission and transfer case. I have done the NV4500 swap in my 62 W100 with an LA 340. I have the stock NP201 transfer case. I used the Chevy 2 wheel drive version of the NV4500 as it has a fixed output yoke (not a slip yoke) and it is the shortest NV4500 between the Dodge and Chevy 4x4 and 4x2. I have a 9" center-center intermediate drive shaft. The next option would be to use the more modern mated (not divorced) transfer case. In this case you would have more options if you used the NV4500.

As for the modern disk brake axle, a Dana 44 or Dana 60 ($$$) are your most available options. The standard 8 lug disk brake axles can be found in Dodge 3/4 ton trucks from ~1972 - ~1993.

[soopernaut]

Also I just hate the front end (Dana 44 -4.09) and want to get rid of it, for a newer style with disk brakes. ...
Maybe I can get one out of a newer Ford or Dodge in a junkyard.

Ford had the differential on the wrong side so it would require re-engineering the whole drivetrain, if even possible. GM axles will work with little modification.

As for the modern disk brake axle, a Dana 44 or Dana 60 ($$$) are your most available options. The standard 8 lug disk brake axles can be found in Dodge 3/4 ton trucks from ~1972 - ~1993.

Disc brakes were not available until 1975. The 75-79 axles are usually avoided due to the bearing design.

[PowerMan]

I believe the Dana 60 started in 76 but they have disk brakes, king pin style (not ball joint), and either have hubs or drive flanges.
I agree with staying away from the unit bearing axles.

[Johns67]

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like 9 years ago I was still asking the same questions.

So I guess I have been thinking about these changes for quite a while.

The NV4500 was suggested before, but I didn't know if that was a good choice because one guy said that there was to much going on (electronics) to make the switch.
A transmission shop said to stay away from the AX15. I have been researching the 727 and 904 which are suppose to be 5 speeds.

I have the 3 drive shaft system out of a power wagon, the trans and transfer are not married.
I had to cut down the crossmember on the transfer case and then just drilled and bolted the crossmember to the 2 wheel drive frame.

Another said that the 1992-05 (Ram 1500 w/v8) NV4500 was a very good transmission, but it wasn't worth the trouble with a LA 318.

I followed a low cost rebuild in Hot Rod magazine, but I never went with the roller cam or aluminum heads.
It has great low end torque and I use the truck for snow plowing my hill road and hauling round bales of hay up a gravel road 300 feet higher than the town I live in.

I am going to buy new tires and have them balanced for the 67 truck and see if I'll like my front end any better.
Thank you!~John

[dodgeboykim]

he NV4500 was suggested before, but I didn't know if that was a good choice because one guy said that there was to much going on (electronics) to make the switch.
A transmission shop said to stay away from the AX15. I have been researching the 727 and 904 which are suppose to be 5 speeds.

NVG 4500 could work. 2 wheel drive version. . May be too long to hook up to divorced T case. May have to move T case back. Speedo output is on your current T case. Or use 4 wheel drive version. They came in 92/93 trucks with T case. They have an output for electronic speedo that could be converted to manual cable.
727 and 904 based OD trans are 3 Speed autos with OD. You would have to use a compatible T case for those transmissions.

All mentioned options will require many modifications to work.

[Johns67]

Found this on eBay looks like your right on the tail shaft to small drive line on the 2x4 Chevy.
I wonder about the input shaft length and splines?
Do you think this would bolt to my bellhousing on the 4 speed?
Has anyone ever done this before?
The NV4500 is supposed to be a real durable trans and can take HP.


1996 Chevy 6.5 Diesel GM NV4500 5 Speed Transmission 2WD Manual Chevrolet 2x4
1996 Chevy 6.5 Diesel GM NV4500 5 Speed Transmission 2WD Manual Chevrolet 2x4
$1,249.99
Buy It Now
or Best Offer
I’m selling a good used NV4500 5 speed manual transmission with only 105,000 miles! The transmission shifted perfectly before being removed from a 2WD 1996 Chevrolet 2500HD with a 6.5 turbo diesel.

Thanks!~John
It looks more realistic now.

[dodgeboykim]

As for bell housing I have no idea what will work. Maybe hydraulic one with mods.

[soopernaut]

I have been researching the 727 and 904 which are suppose to be 5 speeds.

727 and 904 based OD trans are 3 Speed autos with OD. You would have to use a compatible T case for those transmissions.

These are both 3 speeds and they do not have overdrive. The A518 and A500 are the 4 speed versions with overdrive. There were many name changes and variations of these transmissions over the years.

[PowerMan]

The 95 and older chevy NV4500 transmissions do not have the same bolt pattern as the 96 and newer chevy NV4500 transmissions and Dodge NV4500. The newer version usually has the 4 bolt shift tower. The only way to keep the transfer case in the stock position is to use the 96 and newer chevy Nv4500 2 wheel drive transmission (without the rear mounted e-brake). Then you need to swap in the 94-02 gas 1.125" 10 spline input shaft (will bolt in). As for the bellhousing you will need the 94-02 Dodge NV4500 gas bellhousing which came behind 5.2L and 5.9L Magnum engines in the 2500 series trucks. This flywheel will bolt up to the LA series engines and Magnum engines and the 3rd Gen Hemis. I used the stock 94-02 prebled master cylinder/ slave cylinder unit. Had the make an adapter plate for the firewall and shorten the pedal push rod.
I used this NV4500 swap behind a 1970 340 in my 62 W100 with stock Np201 transfer case. It is a neutral balanced engine so for the flywheel, I used a 94-02 5.2L 318 neutral balance flywheel and a Centerforce stage 1 clutch kit for a 94-02 5.9L gas engine. (I believe the 5.9L have a balanced flywheel). The input shaft is shorter on the NV4500 than the stock Np435 or Np420 so you will need to use the input shaft bearing for the 94-02 dodge Nv4500 gas truck. It will have to be pressed into the end of the crank. It is an over the bearing at NAPA.

[dodgeboykim]

I have been researching the 727 and 904 which are suppose to be 5 speeds.

727 and 904 based OD trans are 3 Speed autos with OD. You would have to use a compatible T case for those transmissions.

These are both 3 speeds and they do not have overdrive. The A518 and A500 are the 4 speed versions with overdrive. There were many name changes and variations of these transmissions over the years.

I did say BASED. Could not remember the actual name used for them.

[soopernaut]

727 and 904 based OD trans are 3 Speed autos with OD. You would have to use a compatible T case for those transmissions.

These are both 3 speeds and they do not have overdrive. The A518 and A500 are the 4 speed versions with overdrive. There were many name changes and variations of these transmissions over the years.

I did say BASED. Could not remember the actual name used for them.

I just wanted to make it clearer. The OP thought they were 5 speeds and I didn't want anybody thinking they had overdrive.

[Johns67]

Hello!~I am getting a little confused about the switch to a NV4500.

My 1967 Dodge is A D200.

It has been converted to a 4x4 by me using Power Wagon parts.

I have the same center intermediate drive shaft between the manual trans and the transfer case.
You say I need the 1996 or newer 2 wheel drive Chevy NV4500 fixed output shaft?
So there is no trouble there.

My bellhousing is stock for the 2 wheel drive truck and the 4 speed trans.

The bell housing is bolted to the LA318 and then has the bellhousing frame mounts.
So your saying I need a different bellhousing from behind a 5.2 or 5.9 mag. Gas engine Dodge from a 2500 series truck?

I cut down the Power Wagon transfer case frame mount or cross member... I guess the 2 wheel drive frame is more narrow than the 4X4 frame.

I have the hydrolic clutch with the slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder.
The input shaft on my NP435 is a 10 spline ( a guy at Car Quest said it was like a Chevy when I bought clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing). The input shaft slides into the pilot bearing in the crankshaft.
Can't I put my input shaft on the NV4500 trans?

You can't just take the bell housing off the nv4500 and bolt it to my bell housing?

I am not trying to be difficult... I just don't understand.
If you want to email me you can contact me, but I bet there are a lot of guys that would love to have the 5 speed.

I appreciate your time.

Maybe you could break down the process by...I'm getting lost.

Trans Nv4500 year, make, and vehicle
Bell Housing ...same info
Input Shaft
Clutch
Hydrolic Slave and Clutch Master Cylinder

I guess I'm asking a lot, but it sure would be cool if you could help me out.

Thank you!!!
John

[PwrWgnDrvr]

I cut down the Power Wagon transfer case frame mount or cross member... I guess the 2 wheel drive frame is more narrow than the 4X4 frame.

Can't I put my input shaft on the NV4500 trans?

You can't just take the bell housing off the nv4500 and bolt it to my bell housing?

Frames are the same. Unclear what crossmember you have that needed to be cut down.

No, the 435 input shaft will not fit into a 4500.

No, you cannot bolt a bell housing to a bell housing.

Powerman explained it all above, except for how he mounted the assembly without using the stock 62 bell with its integral mounts.

[Wildergarten]

I have a 9" center-center intermediate drive shaft.

With room to spare to get one of the u-joints out of the drive yoke? Yowza that's tight for a sliding yoke!!!

Did you have to do any adaptation to crossmembers or mounting brackets to maintain parallelism between the trans and t-case shaft lines? My understanding is that it is important to u-joint working life. In the deep past, I recall .003 flange plane parallelism at 3" off center for the marine applications I was doing at the time. Did a lot of jacking and shimming in those days, but those were rigid mounts.

[Johns67]

Hello!~I thought I saw a NV4500 with out it's bell housing and it was a 2 wheel drive truck that you slide in.

Was asking if you could just slide the trans (with out the bell housing into my old bell housing?

Well I don't know if you guys are ever on YouTube, but Jonathan W is putting a 4x2 Chevy NV3500 into another Chevy pickup that has a 4 speed.

I emailed him.

Thank you!~John

The transfer case crossmember on the old Power Wagon was to long for my D200 frame width.
It can be moved enough to fit in a trans.
The 4 wheel drive shifter and linkage (off the power wagon) are home made by someone, but work great.
I think it would of had two shifter handles for the transfer case in this old power wagon I got parts from.

[PowerMan]

NV4500 Transmission: 1996 - ~2004
---2 wheel drive version. (Has a fixed 1350 series yoke and no e-brake on the tailhousing)

Bellhousing: 1994 -2002 Dodge 5.9L Gas engine with NV4500. This will bolt to the 1996-~2004 GM NV4500.

Input shaft: 1994-2002 Dodge 5.9L Gas engine with NV4500. Will be 1.125" (1-1/8") 10 spline input. The NP435 and NP420 is 1" diameter and 10 spline. Overall input shaft is shorter on the NV4500 than is on the NP435/NP420 and is why the bearing below is needed.

Input shaft bearing: 1994-2002 Dodge 5.9L Gas engine with NV4500. MAKE SURE THIS BEARING WILL FIT IN THE BACK OF YOUR CRANK SHAFT, OTHERWISE A CUSTOM BEARING WILL BE NEEDED. I believe this bearing will fit all LA series and Gen 3 Hemi engines too.

Crossmember: The bellhousing does not have mounts. The 61-68 trucks will require the original crossmember to be cut out and a new one to be fabricated.
The 69-71 trucks might be able to reuse the factory crossmember and just move it back. The mount on the transmission is located on the tailshaft. A rubber isolator will need to be sourced depending on your crossmember height.

Driveshaft: The driveshaft in my application needed to be 9" center to center. The two ujoints, slip yoke, and yoke shaft ran about $430. It slips enough to get the driveshaft out. The driveshaft has 1350 series u joints on both ends.

Transfer case: I bought the 1350 series yoke to fit on the input of my factory NP201 transfer case. The shift levers had to be slid over towards the passenger side by 1/4" and a bolt boss on the side of the NV4500 had to be ground down.

[Johns67]

PowerMan, thank you!~Now all I have to do is start searching.
It's people like you that make this site great.

Sounds good!~I saw a post today that someone else has made a 4x2 into a 4x4 and he had to cut down the crossmember for the transfer case.

I have bolts holding mine together. I guess that depended on what truck you got the cross member out of.

Someone else was talking about driveline angles.

I put in the Dana 44 in the front and it lifted my truck big time.

I had a machine shop weld 1 inch spacers together (stacked) and I think my truck sits a little higher in the back (Dana 60).
Don't know if the leaf springs are stock, because the previous owner had an old time heavy welder in the back.
I know it does have overload springs and as soon as they touch the other leafs, I never put any more weight in the back.

I don't even know what angles the drive lines are, but I must of done it right because I am not eating up u-joints.
In fact in the 31 years that I have had the truck I only replaced the u-joints once and I have a snow plow and carry 1500lbs round bales of hay.

One year my 67 Dodge was on the Sweptline calendar for December. There was snow on the ground and the truck is red and I have the snow blade on and there is a huge round bale of hay in the back.

I hope to get started in the spring.

Thanks!~again...John