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CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:03 pm
by ebodyboy
OKAY. I have (so far) ordered (and received) two complete clutch kits for the '68 -W100. The first one had a diaphragm plate - as incorrectly packaged. I got the second one (paid in advance as well), and the plate is the (correct) 'Borg and Beck' style - as was the removed part. However, BOTH discs were of the fine-spline type - - supposedly the correct (OEM) type for the Mopar version of the NP-435 tranny. Everyone agree?
All the on-line and printed info confirms that my truck's disc should be fine-splined, however, the old, removed disc is the course (10-splines).
I got my hands on the T-case, bell-housing AND tranny yesterday. The numbers (on tranny) indicate it is a date-coded NP-435 and it indeed has a course spline. I measured the total length of INPUT (from case/retainer surface to tip of pilot) and that totals 9.5" and, the length of smooooth shaft (from front of splined part to tip) is 3.5". The minor marks on smooth part indicate the pilot bearing was contacting slightly to rear of center part of (smooth) shaft. Nothing out of the ordinary so far.
Now, unless someone comes up with profound solution, I am probably going to end up 'eating' the incorrect fine-spline disc - maybe put pizza fixings on top - :idea - and then find a source that will sell me a (course-splined, FORD?) DISC - ONLY - - - - which could also be difficult. It is getting harder to buy most discs individually. Ideas? (please, NO MESSAGING - reply here). And thanks to all who have read this - - and even those who are laughing. :lol: .

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:42 pm
by 712edf
http://www.hrclutch.com/

They should have the 10 disc clutch.

Bucky

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:44 pm
by soopernaut
Yep, HR Clutch is always recommended in these threads. They are one of the few places that will get you the correct parts.

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:02 pm
by ebodyboy
soopernaut wrote:Yep, HR Clutch is always recommended in these threads. They are one of the few places that will get you the correct parts.
(I am sure ALL the other retailers and suppliers are happy to hear this.) :bs

I should point out again that I only need the DISC - and NOT COMPLETE KIT.

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:50 pm
by digdoug
All of the 68 and older clutch disks are 10 spline.I also like hr clutch. They are good guys! :Thumbsup They sell you the right parts the first time.

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:24 am
by ebodyboy
How can I prove this? Can you provide a reputable source? ALL the info and publications I've come across - - even Wikipedia - state that ALL THE DODGE (NP435's) from '62 thru '97-ish had a FINE-SPLINE input shaft. What about the rest of you enthusiasts?? What form of plate (as you recall) are you using? I have two complete clutch kits sitting here - waiting to be returned ($450. in limbo) and Visa almost due. I will try the http://www.partsmonkey.com website to check (pre-1968) listings. I suspect the earlier trucks also used the hydraulic systems? :thinking

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:33 am
by wally426ci
The reputable source may be the Search bar up top that will show the years of people stopping through here with the exact same question.

I run a McLeod clutch in mine (they have coarse and fine discs available)

:study

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:51 am
by ebodyboy
Well, at least you didn't tell me to GOOGLE the clutch or tranny applications. :clap
I've only known about this (fine, reputable, knowledgeable and helpful) site for two months. I tried five different clutch sources - including RockAuto (to get part numbers, specs. prices, shipping and of course availability) and every one of them has communicated the same thing - that the MOPAR trannys all had fine splines. My friend's 'one-owner' '80 P.W. had fine spline but, in all honesty, I have limited exposure to any other 435 applications. I will see what I can find. thanks.

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:27 pm
by Hobcobble
ebodyboy wrote:Well, at least you didn't tell me to GOOGLE the clutch or tranny applications. :clap
I've only known about this (fine, reputable, knowledgeable and helpful) site for two months. I tried five different clutch sources - including RockAuto (to get part numbers, specs. prices, shipping and of course availability) and every one of them has communicated the same thing - that the MOPAR trannys all had fine splines. My friend's 'one-owner' '80 P.W. had fine spline but, in all honesty, I have limited exposure to any other 435 applications. I will see what I can find. thanks.
The 23 spline disc came into use for the '69 model year's new mechanical clutch system.
A bell housing, flywheel, clutch pressure plate and throw out bearing change took
place as well. Your '68 W100 would fall into the hydraulic clutch era. The disc will
have 10 splines. As others have mentioned, HR Clutch will take care of you. I've
ordered from them for two of my Sweptlines. I did get a disc from my local NAPA
some years ago.... but it took three "attempts" and me telling them its a TEN SPLINE
DISC!! :banghead :banghead :banghead :censored :censored . Anyhow, their third try proved successful. :lol:
John

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:27 pm
by ebodyboy
Well, as usual, I composed 'prize-winning' response, had to leave the room for 5 minutes, then returned to finish and post my reply - only to be directed to the Log-In page. Result - message lost. It seems to work just fine IF I 'click' on Preview every two minutes (give or take). Now, before getting back on topic, I must do just that.

First, thanks to John for good info - just what I have been seeking (and somewhat expecting) but, alas, all contrary to everything I have read after doing countless searches (so far). For example, I just read from http://www.novak-adapt.com website about the NP435 tranny. It plainly states that (all) Dodge versions, as used from 1962 thru 1993 had 23-spline input shafts. This is same as what I read in Wikipedia. I managed to get both clutch kits shipped away today - prepaid - thanks to professionalism and cooperation by people at http://www.partsmonkey.com. I will sniff around to see if I can get something closer to me - or at least a course-spline (11-inch) disc. The price for each kit, at $208. (CDN) was a bargain. I am well-aware of 'up-scale / name-brand' units by Schieffer, McLeod, Hays etc. but this is not a ('70-'71) Hemi Challenger or 'Cuda so the jobber parts are quite adequate. Tomorrow's another day. :2cents

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:12 am
by 712edf
ebodyboy wrote:How can I prove this? Can you provide a reputable source? ALL the info and publications I've come across - - even Wikipedia - state that ALL THE DODGE (NP435's) from '62 thru '97-ish had a FINE-SPLINE input shaft.
I think the fact that yours is course-spline proves Wikipedia & the other sources wrong.

Bucky

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:45 am
by Hobcobble
712edf wrote: I think the fact that yours is course-spline proves Wikipedia & the other sources wrong.

Bucky
Precisely. :Thumbsup

Ebodyboy,
Just remember.... We tried to tell ya.... :lol: :lol:

John

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:06 pm
by ebodyboy
Criticism well-taken, guys. :moom . I was pretty sure someone did not simply swap in a Ford tranny (mainly) because of the differences with the input, output and bell-housing surface.
It does bother me that ALL the 'reputable' parts suppliers I contacted seem to concur that the input should be fine-spline.
I will try my http://www.lordco.com AND Napa to see if either of them is able to 'read my lips' - despite prices being a bit on the high-side, but, I'd save a small fortune in shipping. At this point in time I need the parts - like within three weeks. The kits I got from Ontario would have been perfect - - IF I had an -833 - - but in all honesty, when I ordered from them, I gave the correct truck info - period. I did not specify 'fine or course-splines' and they sent me what was listed. Then, when (first) P.P. turned out to be a diaphragm - due to one letter in part no. on box being omitted - (as well as disc being fine), I specified a Borg and Beck style P.P. AND a course-spline disc. They got the kit sent to them and simply re-shipped it to me - - without opening it to check. (sigh) I also searched Ebay and lots of parts available - but, again there's the $-conversion and of course shipping costs. :pale

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:46 pm
by Hobcobble
ebodyboy wrote: It does bother me that ALL the 'reputable' parts suppliers I contacted seem to concur that the input should be fine-spline.
Bothersome..... Yes.
Surprising..... Not really

Nobody here is criticizing you about this. Like me, many here are somewhat
skeptical of parts suppliers and how inaccurate they can be. There have been
many before you who have reported this same clutch parts scenario.
John

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:12 am
by ebodyboy
Thanks, John - - and others. I have my local NAPA working on finding correct disc. (wish I had numbers) - but, if like every other supplier I've contacted, their (listed) disc will likely also be fine-spline. I will know more when I visit them in a few hours. :clap (sigh).
But, the good news is that I got (100%) credit for BOTH my returned clutch packs. I will definitely deal with Parts Monkey in the future - just not for Pre-'69 clutches. :shame .

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:12 pm
by Hobcobble
ebodyboy wrote:Thanks, John - - and others. I have my local NAPA working on finding correct disc. (wish I had numbers) - but, if like every other supplier I've contacted, their (listed) disc will likely also be fine-spline. I will know more when I visit them in a few hours. :clap (sigh).
But, the good news is that I got (100%) credit for BOTH my returned clutch packs. I will definitely deal with Parts Monkey in the future - just not for Pre-'69 clutches. :shame .
Maybe you can convince your local NAPA to source the disc through HR Clutch.... :idea :lol: :joker
John

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:22 am
by ebodyboy
Well, I did it again. I composed nice, legible posting and took longer than five minutes to Preview OR Submit and, as is always the case - - - - POOF! Now back to square-one. I do not think it has anything to do with my settings, either, because I am unaware of such. Ooops. I'd better Preview now.

Well, to no big surprise, NAPA has struck out. Their 'listings' seem to indicate, like most everyone else, that the disc should be fine-spline. I appreciate the suggestions (and especially allegiance to HR Clutch) however I would really prefer to find a source in Canada. By the time I get ANYthing sent from U.S., the initial cost will more than double. One of our latest and destructive adversaries is Canada Border Services Agency - (CBSA) and they LOVE to stick it to cross-border shoppers. U.P.S. is bad enough with all their 'surcharges' and it doesn't get much better dealing with USPS or FEDEX.
I should point-out, yet again, that I am NOT seeking a 'name-brand' setup - such as Shieffer, Hayes or even Fenton. Even the 'jobber' kits are totally adequate. My best deal, so far, has been $130.-U.S. for entire kit. Yes, that would be with a fine-spline disc. Even with all those nasty surcharges, it would still be around $260.-CDN, so not that bad. OR, I can also go back to Partsmonkey.com - where $226.-CDN was not a bad deal. I would then have to find a correct disc - like on Ebay and then either 'sit on' the wrong disc OR find a good home for it - to recoup some of the costs anyway. Why wouldn't the (course-spline) FORD disc not work?
So, how about it (SWeptliners), anyone in Canada with any good ideas or links?? :thinking

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:58 pm
by soopernaut
Maybe you too little internet connection bandwidth and the page times out. When I write a long post I will copy it, so if it does disappear all I have to do is paste it.

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:01 pm
by digdoug
ebodyboy wrote:Well, I did it again. I composed nice, legible posting and took longer than five minutes to Preview OR Submit and, as is always the case - - - - POOF! Now back to square-one. I do not think it has anything to do with my settings, either, because I am unaware of such. Ooops. I'd better Preview now.

Well, to no big surprise, NAPA has struck out. Their 'listings' seem to indicate, like most everyone else, that the disc should be fine-spline. I appreciate the suggestions (and especially allegiance to HR Clutch) however I would really prefer to find a source in Canada. By the time I get ANYthing sent from U.S., the initial cost will more than double. One of our latest and destructive adversaries is Canada Border Services Agency - (CBSA) and they LOVE to stick it to cross-border shoppers. U.P.S. is bad enough with all their 'surcharges' and it doesn't get much better dealing with USPS or FEDEX.
I should point-out, yet again, that I am NOT seeking a 'name-brand' setup - such as Shieffer, Hayes or even Fenton. Even the 'jobber' kits are totally adequate. My best deal, so far, has been $130.-U.S. for entire kit. Yes, that would be with a fine-spline disc. Even with all those nasty surcharges, it would still be around $260.-CDN, so not that bad. OR, I can also go back to Partsmonkey.com - where $226.-CDN was not a bad deal. I would then have to find a correct disc - like on Ebay and then either 'sit on' the wrong disc OR find a good home for it - to recoup some of the costs anyway. Why wouldn't the (course-spline) FORD disc not work?
So, how about it (SWeptliners), anyone in Canada with any good ideas or links?? :thinking
Hr clutch is a clutch rebuilder(remanufacturer). You would know that if you tried to contact them. I am sure there are any number of clutch rebuilders local to you that can help you out. :2cents

Re: CLUTCH DISC ISSUES - NOW, PAY ATTENTION.

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:27 pm
by ebodyboy
Uh huh. Surprisingly (or not), 'rebuilders' in BC are more than likely non-existent. Searches come up nothing so someone will hopefully oblige me as being wrong. Apparently it is cheaper to bring in Chinese or Mexican parts than fool around with worn-out cores. Seriously. Haven't any of you purchased (new) master cyls. or clutch slaves and cyls. or water pumps and even calipers lately? Just look at country of origin on packaging. :pale