cross-over power steering

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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby MountainMoparRobin » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:55 am

Cageman wrote:I used a 2 wheel drive GM box, I love my crossover steering. Its like driving a car. I have 35 14.50's too, lol I was looking over a cash for clunker jeep grand cherokee the other day, and it appers the steering arm on that is the same as the drop one I have on my box I paid 75 bucks for, oh well.

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Yeap! Yeap! I posted that on another truck owners quest for power steering and they couldn't see the connection, they're may be a PowerWagon getting the Jeep box soon here :Thumbsup
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby tapakah » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:40 pm

For those of us who are not all that bright (me) what is the advantage of cross over steering?
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby crusty » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:38 pm

It gives a more positive steering feel, especially when the suspension moves more than normal, as is often experienced offroad.

Can anybody give me the dimension of their D60 arm, from the center of the kingpin hole to the center of the drag link hole?
What a mess.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby digdoug » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:29 pm

Another advantage to crossover steering is that you can turn sharper/run bigger tires/more offset, because you dont have to worry about the tire rubbing on the draglink end when you turn left
Last edited by digdoug on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby moparman336 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:21 pm

with a crossover setup it allows you to design your suspension for more articulation and the steering geometry is more efficient than the stock setup so you can turn and control the steering wheel better. if you go on the ballisticfabrication.com website they have dimensions and a very well priced kit with hardware. just go to the high steer arms page. the dimension you were asking for seems to be fairly standard at 8.375 inches. there is a pic on their site.
but the high steer arms i will be buying will probably be the OTT arms from ottindustries.com since they have a built in spacer to clear the leaves for my hysteer setup. they are very strong and there is a good write up on them in the pirate4x4.com tech section. in case some one doesnt know hysteer means to move the tie rod shaft from the stock location to up above the leafs and onto the steering arms to keep it out of harms way from rocks, stumps, etc. my buddies ford has bent his shaft so many times it looks like a wet noodle. i have done enough research about this stuff now i just cant wait to go do it :lol:
and i would try and keep the draglink as parallel as possible to the axle in a crossover setup to avoid any extra strain on the steering arm as there is alot of stress on that area. because if your steering fails that is never a fun or safe time.
67 D300 fargo 318 4 speed
68 W200 fargo 360 4 speed 38.5" boggers
68 W200 crewcab 360 4 speed 42" tsl's
70 D100 Dude /6 4 speed
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby crusty » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:55 am

So 8.375 seems to be standard? The reason I ask is because I have found 6.75 and 8.00 so far. It would be easier to do the math if I knew for sure what number I am supposed to use.

For yours, how are you setting up the steering box? I would be interested in seeing your plan.
What a mess.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby moparman336 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:01 pm

i plan on doing a setup exactly like dodgydan. i got a steering box for a 77-79 ford F250 4x4. the box actually came out of a 76 ford but i guess it was an early model run. i got the pitman arm turned 90 degrees already. i got the steering shaft off the ford too, looks like it will work. my buddy is also gonna tap my box for hydraulic assist but i probably wont need it, just in case.
went out wheelin today with my buddies for 6 hours, about a foot and a half of snow with alot of 3 foot drifts and the power wagon mostly kept up with the lifted chevs with lockers. we had a bonfire and weiner roast out on the slough. man i cant wait to lift mine so i can go farther and get stuck worse. :lol:
67 D300 fargo 318 4 speed
68 W200 fargo 360 4 speed 38.5" boggers
68 W200 crewcab 360 4 speed 42" tsl's
70 D100 Dude /6 4 speed
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby crusty » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:37 am

I hear ya. I just got my tires a little while ago, and now am fiending to go out and have some fun. I have been collecting parts for 2 years now and can't wait to be out driving around.
What a mess.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby vetto » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:48 pm

Considering power steering for my D200, but am confused about the arm connecting the drag link to the wheel. I noted that you can buy an arm for a Dana, but what about for a 2wd I-beam? If there ain't such an animal, I will consider same-side power steering...this just looked way better :)
1971 D200 Crew Cab (The rust was FREE!)
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby DicksDodge » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:03 am

Haven't put up many posts here, but am now going forward with my truck. Thanks for this great article. I have, in the past, looked at doing the conversion similar to what the guy up in Canada was building. Sorry, can't remember his name. This looks like a much better setup. I inherited this truck from my uncle. He already had a box and pump as well as hoses, but I will go through everything to make sure it will work.
Again, great article, great pictures.

Scott
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby Lowdown » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:36 pm

Hey guys, my name is Andy, I'm from Severn, MD. I have built several rock crawling specific trucks over the years; mainly Toyotas and a few Jeeps. My '68 Power Wagon will be my first nice street/trail project where as all other trucks have been trail only. This is a great site and I hope to give back as much as I've learned from reading off this site over the last month or so. I consider my specialty suspension and chassis work so here it goes..

To prevent confusion, the pictures on P.2 are of a D44 axle..The most obvious sign being that it's a passenger side drop, ball joint axle. I don't believe there was ever a factory made passenger side drop, ball joint D60.
The knuckle has a flat top and the steering arm attaches with three studs, offset from the ball joint. I believe high steer arms on ball joint D60 mount the same way. On king pin D60s, after market steering arms install over the king pin.
Also, on D44s, the amount of tubing exposed on the passenger side of the diff. is about 2x of that of a Dodge D60 and about 1.5x that of a GM D60. This is due to the increased width of the D60 center section (diff) compared to a D44. On D44s, the spring plate is held down with 2 u-bolts on the passenger side (like the one posted) where GM and Dodge D60s run 1 u-bolt and a pair of studs that screw into the center section. Rock crawlers will sometimes grind the webbing on the center section to allow for the use of a second u-bolt instead of running studs. This doens't appear to the case in the above picture.

I'm also planning on converting my '68 to power cross over steering. I've used PSC (PSCMotorsports.com) equipment before in my past builds and plan on going with one of their
2WD GM steering boxes which mounts to the inside the frame rail. Cageman, how close does the driver's side tire come to your box at full lock (to the passenger side)?
My concern is connecting the new box to the end of the factory shaft since it exists the firewall, pretty low, and at a steep angle.
I hope to get around it with u-jouins, running the new shaft through heims, up to the new box.
Do you have any pictures of how you ran the steering shaft?

Also, guys, there are several vendors for steering arms. Make sure you get an arm or arms that are the same length as your pitman arm to maintain the right amount of steering throw/travel. Partsmike.com offers a great product for the buck. For more "bling" arms, check out other companies including: OffRoadDesign, BlueTorchFab, BallisticFabrication, 4x4labs, NorthWestFab, etc. Pirate4x4.com is an incredible site for research and finding after market vendors. Use the search function before posting..they're a little oranry on that site.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby Cageman » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:05 am

here ya go. it cuts it off on the right side here, click on each link to see it fullsize. The 4 wheel box has a pinch bolt that holds the arm on and rubbed when turned right. xover it uses two wheel bix and a dropped arm that is splined and has a nut that holds it on.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/c ... scs003.jpg
two wheel drive box.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/c ... ood001.jpg

4 wheel
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2 wheel
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby Lowdown » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:09 pm

Do you feel any bind at all from the u joint at the bottom of the column?
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby Cageman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:52 am

no, not even close. Been that way for oh, 12 years or so, think I did it in 98. My 70 with a diplomat stub has way more angle than that, it too is fine.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby Lowdown » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:07 pm

I have a 2WD Dodge D350 steering box if anyone is interested in it for a conversion. It bolts to the outside of the frame rail just like Cageman's picture.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby redrider » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:22 pm

can this be done with the stock dana 44 close knuckle?
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby crusty » Wed May 23, 2012 7:45 am

Theoretically, yes, as it has bolted on caps on the knuckles. However, you would have to find someone to make the arm, and you would need to get the geometry right. Generally, people swap the closed knuckle for a newer open one and enjoy the benefits of front disc brakes at the same time.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby dodgeboykim » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:44 pm

I did a power steering conversion on my 66 W100 17 years ago using a 76/77 4 wheel drive steering box mounted ahead of the axle with a gm adjustable drag link. Kept the stock column with a u joint where the rag was and u joint at the box. At the time I had piles of omni/horizen steering parts so used them to make the steering shaft. Does give a bit of bump steer but very manageable. Would I do it again probably not but would go to crossover steering to prevent bump steer.
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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby runcharger » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:53 pm

The crossover is nice and all that but when you install it get a buddy to rock the wheel back and forth while you watch the framerail from underneath the truck. On my son's truck it moves a couple of inches, the framerail was not designed to have that force applied sideways like that. So, the job isn't complete until you've boxed and gussetted the frame rail.

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Re: cross-over power steering

Postby MikeMc » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:39 pm

No u don't reinforce the frame you run a parallel rod from the frame to the axle. Just like Ford does. Look under any super duty F series 4x4 and they run the extra rod. This extra rod is what prevents the frame from twisting.
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