Reminiscing and musings

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DavidPope
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Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

Back in the day (summer of 1966) we bought a used 1965 D100 313 w/3 on the tree for $1300. We used it around the farm for well over a decade and wracked up around 600000 miles or so. The 313 didn’t take kindly to 80 mph speeds all the time with 3.91 rear end gears but a motor lasted around the 100000 miles before getting weak. We never touched the rear end but replaced one transmission. A U-joint was vibrating but didn’t seem anywhere bad enough to break and it didn’t. Instead the mounting lugs broke off the tranny and with no rear crossmember it dropped to the pavement at about 80 mph and spread itself over about a half mile of highway. Lots of fun!
When the shocks got weak and the tires got wore down, the front end would take into a shimmy on gravel roads and you’d have to slow down to about 30 mph to get it to stop so you could start over. Like I said, shocks and tires would fix it although sometimes it took a while for us to get around to it.
Rear end hop was always a problem if you got into a bit of street racing. It was so bad once that the spare tire bounced out of the back. I was beating a 396 El Camino so I didn’t want to let off the gas!
All in all we figured it was a pretty good truck that took a lot of abuse.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

I'm not sure what Dodge did, but the 67 to 71 trucks didn't have near the problems with front end shimmy and rear end hop. When they came out with the IFS in 72 the shimmy and wheel hop were eliminated. Personally I think the 61 to 65 D100s had a lot more character than the newer ones. About a 63 body on a 75 swb chassis would give you the best of both worlds. You'd also have reliable power steering and brakes. Add a 440 under the hood hooked to a 727 and posi 3 to 1 rear end and you'd be all set to go.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

Having made those comments, here's some pics of some of the stuff I have lying around. A 72 or newer frame wouldn't be hard to come by.
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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

In the mid 70s I ran a 1964 Plymouth Savoy coupe with a 440 Magnum and a 4 speed. I quickly learned that with a 500 or so hp 440 in a 3500 pound vehicle you need a rear sump pan with windage tray and baffling to keep the oil around the pickup under hard aceleration. Without it the oil would slosh away from the sucker at about 4000 rpm in second gear. Not good at all!
Another issue with the 440 was the exhaust manifolds went up alongside the tappet covers and the cover gaskets would burn out in no time. High temp silicone helped but it was still an issue. These stainless block hugging headers would be a good solution for a reasonable price. A couple of 3 inch exhaust pipes going back from them would sound awesome too!
Screenshot_1.jpg
A set of slapper traction bars would be in order as well. With that old Savoy you could smoke the tires when you pulled out to pass at 50 mph or better. That truck would be close to the same weight as the Savoy.
Last edited by DavidPope on Mon May 01, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by Hobcobble »

Sounds like your next move should be to start your build thread on this site. :dance :clap :welcome
John

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

When I actually start doing something I'll start a build thread but right now I'm still on the musings.
A cousin of mine has a 65 and a 75 (both in rough shape) sitting together so I checked things out with a tape measure. All the critical measurements are within a half inch or so. Measuring from the centreline of the front wheels, this includes length to end of frame, distance to motor mounts, distance to rad mounts and front end mounts, and distance back to front cab mounts. That should make for an easy swap. Shortening the frame is a simple task.
I was looking at brake and suspension parts on ebay and 71 to 72 are listed together then 73 to 81. The 72 body style must have come out in mid 71 to be listed like that. The 72 frame would be one to avoid if it's kind of an orphan for parts availability reasons so I'll look for a 73 to 81 donor truck.
If I use those headers and a lopey cam on the 440 I'll add a Performer RPM with an 850 Holley four barrel or a 950 Holley three barrel. I have both those carbs so will likely try them both anyway and see which works best. 440s seem to get along pretty well with the 3 barrel from past experiences.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by PwrWgnDrvr »

This swap has been proposed, discussed, tried many times, done few times. It is not as simple as it seems. Dig thru this forum using the search function to learn more.
For one, the frame shape is very different.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

I'd have to make it swb anyway so maybe use the back half of the 63 frame. I'll have to determine what to do when I have them side by side with no bodies.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

I didn't end up with that Fargo but ended up with one just about the same. It's a slant six automatic with the dash mounted shifter.
The guy threw in a 78 Club Cab with a 400 auto and Dana 60 rear end with 5 bolt wheels. As a bonus it has about a 20 gallon second gas tank mounted behind the rear end that I'll use. I don't really like the gas tank in the cab with me.
The motor mounts have been ripped apart by the 400 so I think I'll use the Chrysler mounts. They don't rely on glue to keep them together! The rear sump pan will fit the 440 too.
I think I'll have to cut the frame in two places; once in the upslope at the back of the cab to get the back part at the right level and once just back of that to get the right length. The back end will get cut to length just behind that gas tank and the front end might need a couple of inches cut off. This way I can avoid mounting the cab higher to make it fit. The back half of the frame on the 78 is about 3 inches higher than the 67. They kind of got carried away with the number of crossmembers on the club cab.
That Loadflite off the 400 will have the double wrap bands and the extra discs in the clutch packs. The torque converter off the six will make a high stall converter for the 440. That's how they got the high stall unit for the hemi originally.
There's sure a lot of meat in that 67 rear bumper. No wonder they don't seem to ever get bent up like the newer ones.
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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

The top pic is the 67 frame and the bottom is the 78.
You can see how Dodge cured the wheel hop problem. Instead of the rear end being centred on the springs they put it a few inches to the front of centre and made the front of the spring leaves go up to the spring mount. That stops the springs from wrapping.
The 78 frame is heavier than the 67 also. The rails are 7" deep instead of 6'' like the 67 and are 1/4" wider as well.
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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by soopernaut »

I doubt that rear axle in the 78 is a Dana 60. It is probably a Chrysler 9.25".

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

I just looked it up and it's a Dana Spicer 9.25" Chrysler rear end. I assumed it was a Dana 60 but there are differences I see.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

I guess I lucked out on that rear end since the posi unit I have is the one that fits it! It's a 2.76:1 ratio but a warmed over 440 with a high stall converter will handle it OK with 15" rubber.
I was comparing those two frames again and where the cab mounts will go both frames are level. The 78 has a bigger hump over the suspension so the fender liners might need to be trimmed.
The hump in the frames over the rear ends seems to be the same height on both of them. The crossmember over the rear end on the 78 is humped up a couple of inches in the middle so it will need to be swappped.
I'll bolt the 67 body mount brackets to the 78 frame and set the box in place then see how much I need to lower the rear half of the frame.
The frame at the rad support bracket is narrower on the 78. I'll cut several inches off the 67 frame and weld them to the outside of the 78 frame. I'll trim them to the right width before welding them in place and this will give me the rad support mounting holes as well as the bumper mounting holes.
Nothing to it, right???

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by dodgeboykim »

DavidPope wrote:I just looked it up and it's a Dana Spicer 9.25" Chrysler rear end. I assumed it was a Dana 60 but there are differences I see.

No such thing as a Dana Spicer 9 1/4. 9 1/4 is a Chrysler Corporate built rear axle. Dana 60 is a 9 3/4.

Differential-ID-Chart.jpg
My truck is younger than me.
66 W100. 70 D 500 , 69 Hiab Speed Loader. 96 Ram 3500 Club Cab Cummin's 5 spd. 97 Ram 1500 Club Cab 5.9 gas auto. 83 W200 LB Propane 360 auto 09 Yammy Rhino 700.

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Re: Reminiscing and musings

Post by DavidPope »

The 9.25 looks like Dana was involved in the design. A lot of sites have Spicer part numbers listed for the parts. I'm not positive either way.
I torched the crossmembers out of the 67 frame to do a side by side comparison with the 78.
With the horizontal parts behind the cab lined up the rad support mounts are the same height but the 78 frame dips an inch or so lower under the cab. The cab mounts can be mounted higher to allow for that.
The horizontal part behind the back wheels is a few inches higher on the 78. When I shorten the frame I'll cut it on the hump and move the front hangers ahead so I can bring the back down to the proper level.
There'll only be the one cut to shorten and level the frame. I'll clamp the two frame rails together so I can drill through the 67 holes to get everything in the right place.
The front frame horns off the 67 will have to be used to get the frame wide enough for the bumper mounts.
All in all it looks fairly simple.
You could do the same thing on a long wheel base if you start with a club cab donor for the newer frame.
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