save your engine!!

[motomatt383]

i know this might not be the right place to have brought this up, but.... i posted about this a while back, and got very little response from here. Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate is being removed from motor oil, after 70 trouble free yrs. engines designed prior to the 1990's with non-roller lifters require ZDDP in the motor oil to prevent premature deterioration.

check this website for all the answers to all the questions being asked. http://www.zddplus.com/

i'm a dealer for ZDDPlus, so if your interested please feel free to contact me.

thanks, matt

[moparbob71]

Matt ( Duuude!), why don't you tell us what it is, how much is needed for a 5 qt oil change, and prices? I've got over 5K in the 383 and nothing left to fix it

[motomatt383]

ZDDPlus is what i'm talkin' about. its sold in sealed bottles, in the correct amount for a 4-5 qt oil change. i'll sell it by the bottle, in a 4-pak or a 6-pak.

its 9.95 a bottle +S&H
39.95 for a 4-pak + S&H
59.95 for a 6-pak +S&H

there's a lot of oil additives out there, this isn't an additive! its just replacing what the EPA has forced the oil companies to remove.


matt

[Hobcobble]

ZDDPlus is what i'm talkin' about. its sold in sealed bottles, in the correct amount for a 4-5 qt oil change. i'll sell it by the bottle, in a 4-pak or a 6-pak.

its 9.95 a bottle +S&H
39.95 for a 4-pak + S&H
59.95 for a 6-pak +S&H

there's a lot of oil additives out there, this isn't an additive! its just replacing what the EPA has forced the oil companies to remove.


matt

Paypal?... check?... money order?..... any of the above acceptable methods of payment?
John

[motomatt383]

paypal, check, money orders and i'll be set up for credit cards (mastercard & visa) by friday.


thanks
call 919-291-7618 or send to MotoMatt, 801 E. Hudson Ave, Durham, NC 27704. please include all return shipping info when sending check or money order.


matt

[Wildergarten]

Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate is being removed from motor oil, after 70 trouble free yrs. engines designed prior to the 1990's with non-roller lifters require ZDDP in the motor oil to prevent premature deterioration.

Hi Matt,

Just learned about this today from a machinist. New oils kill camshafts, yyyyyup.

How does this product differ from STP?

[PwrWgnDrvr]

This topic is 11 yrs old and Matt was last here 4 yrs ago. U might want to try the phone number.

[Wildergarten]

This topic is 11 yrs old and Matt was last here 4 yrs ago. U might want to try the phone number.

I may just do that. It might well explain that BB fuel pump problem with the cam shaft and pin.

[Hobcobble]

http://www.lesfrickshun.com/

John

[swptln]

Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate is being removed from motor oil, after 70 trouble free yrs. engines designed prior to the 1990's with non-roller lifters require ZDDP in the motor oil to prevent premature deterioration.

Hi Matt,

Just learned about this today from a machinist. New oils kill camshafts, yyyyyup.

How does this product differ from STP?

New no-zinc oils only kill camshafts on a brand new flat-tappet engine. If the engine has been broke in you can run anything in it. STP is only a viscosity improver, does nothing for helping with lack of zinc. There are a few manufacturers of special break-in oil for flat-tappet engines. Just do some research on different oils and there are some with zinc content, if your worried or prefer to have it in your engine? All full synthetics will not have any zinc.........not to sound like a advertising agent, but look at Kendall synthetic blends. They are one of the few who still have zinc content in their oils. Shell Rotella 15W-40 also has zinc. Not 100% sure, but I think Lucas also has an additive for break-ins.
Personally, why would you want to run an additive every time you change your oil..........I can see the break-in for sure, but once it's broke in you shouldn't need it. JMO
I do generator repair and service from air-cooled portables to liquid-cooled diesels and all we use is Kendall motor oils. We have used all other brands over the years and they are by far the better of them all. Their products hold up and they are one of the few oils that when you do a oil change, it comes out almost as clean as when it goes in, doesn't wreak of fuel, break down, etc.

[Wildergarten]

I hate writing a post like this, because I fear that you will take me wrongly. Hopefully, it will help strengthen what appears to me to be a relationship based in mutual respect; else, you would not have bothered with the reply above.

New no-zinc oils only kill camshafts on a brand new flat-tappet engine. If the engine has been broke in you can run anything in it.

I would be careful with a word like "only." From the Amsiol web site: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classi ... rotection/

The design of flat-tappet cams makes them especially vulnerable to wear. As the name indicates, the tappet – or lifter – is flat. During operation the surface of the cam lobe slides rapidly over the surface of the tappet, producing high friction and temperatures. The camshaft and lifters are responsible for triggering the precisely tuned movements of the valvetrain

Without the protective film barrier provided by ZDDP, the cams and lifters wear from the force of operation, negatively affecting cam and valve operation. Because most V-8 engines of the muscle car era came standard with flat-tappet cams, the problem is especially prevalent to classic-car and hot-rod owners.

So, maybe not.

STP is only a viscosity improver, does nothing for helping with lack of zinc. There are a few manufacturers of special break-in oil for flat-tappet engines. Just do some research on different oils and there are some with zinc content, if your worried or prefer to have it in your engine?

I would be careful with a word like "only." From the STP web site: http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additiv ... treatment/

CONTAINS ZINC ANTI-WEAR AGENT ZDDP

So, yes, it does.

All full synthetics will not have any zinc.........not to sound like a advertising agent, but look at Kendall synthetic blends. They are one of the few who still have zinc content in their oils. Shell Rotella 15W-40 also has zinc. Not 100% sure, but I think Lucas also has an additive for break-ins.

From the Amsiol web site: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classi ... rotection/

In these applications, modern oils, such as AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, are capable of providing adequate wear protection after the engine has been broken in. But due to variables like severity of service and level of modification, AMSOIL primarily recommends high-ZDDP oils in these applications, such as Z-ROD® Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF, ZRT) or DOMINATOR® Synthetic Racing Oil (RD20, RD30, RD50, RD60). When breaking in a rebuilt or high-performance engine, AMSOIL recommends AMSOIL Break-In Oil (BRK), which contains high levels of ZDDP for added wear protection.

I do my research because research is what I do. I ask questions because there is a lot I don't know.

Personally, why would you want to run an additive every time you change your oil..........I can see the break-in for sure, but once it's broke in you shouldn't need it. JMO

I do generator repair and service from air-cooled portables to liquid-cooled diesels and all we use is Kendall motor oils. We have used all other brands over the years and they are by far the better of them all. Their products hold up and they are one of the few oils that when you do a oil change, it comes out almost as clean as when it goes in, doesn't wreak of fuel, break down, etc.

From the Kendall web site: https://www.kendallmotoroil.com/product ... d-titanium

High ZDDP content for additional wear protection for engines with flat-tappet camshafts (SAE 20W-50)

I do admire what you know about these trucks sweptln, a lot, which is why I bothered with a lengthy post with sources, because I think you'll respect them. I value highly your desire to help. In that respect, we are very similar people. But please be careful before assuming that I am incautious about my queries. I have an ego too!

[Hobcobble]

http://www.lesfrickshun.com/zinc.html

John

[Wildergarten]

Thanks John.

[earlymopar]

This is what I use:

https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oi ... -zinc-plus

- EM

[Wildergarten]

https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oi ... -zinc-plus

Thx EM,

After pondering the three 383 motors I've torn down, ALL showed serious fuel pump push rod wear and deterioration of the corresponding camshaft lobe, two of them to the point that they would not drive the fuel pump at all. This makes sense to me because the short radius of that rod means there is more shear on that contact point than anywhere else on the shaft (higher rate of angular plus translational shear). EVERY one of these motors was built when there was plenty of ZDDP in the oil, they were all obviously broken in, and they all had similar milage <90K. Yet two of the three showed similarly catastrophic wear in the fuel pump rod and camshaft lobe, while the third still worked but was badly worn. There is no way this would have been tolerated at the factory for so long if it had been such a systemic problem. The difference may just be the oil.

[swptln]

I hate writing a post like this, because I fear that you will take me wrongly. Hopefully, it will help strengthen what appears to me to be a relationship based in mutual respect; else, you would not have bothered with the reply above.

New no-zinc oils only kill camshafts on a brand new flat-tappet engine. If the engine has been broke in you can run anything in it.

I would be careful with a word like "only." From the Amsiol web site: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classi ... rotection/

The design of flat-tappet cams makes them especially vulnerable to wear. As the name indicates, the tappet – or lifter – is flat. During operation the surface of the cam lobe slides rapidly over the surface of the tappet, producing high friction and temperatures. The camshaft and lifters are responsible for triggering the precisely tuned movements of the valvetrain

Without the protective film barrier provided by ZDDP, the cams and lifters wear from the force of operation, negatively affecting cam and valve operation. Because most V-8 engines of the muscle car era came standard with flat-tappet cams, the problem is especially prevalent to classic-car and hot-rod owners.

So, maybe not.

STP is only a viscosity improver, does nothing for helping with lack of zinc. There are a few manufacturers of special break-in oil for flat-tappet engines. Just do some research on different oils and there are some with zinc content, if your worried or prefer to have it in your engine?

I would be careful with a word like "only." From the STP web site: http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additiv ... treatment/

CONTAINS ZINC ANTI-WEAR AGENT ZDDP

So, yes, it does.

All full synthetics will not have any zinc.........not to sound like a advertising agent, but look at Kendall synthetic blends. They are one of the few who still have zinc content in their oils. Shell Rotella 15W-40 also has zinc. Not 100% sure, but I think Lucas also has an additive for break-ins.

From the Amsiol web site: https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classi ... rotection/

In these applications, modern oils, such as AMSOIL synthetic motor oils, are capable of providing adequate wear protection after the engine has been broken in. But due to variables like severity of service and level of modification, AMSOIL primarily recommends high-ZDDP oils in these applications, such as Z-ROD® Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF, ZRT) or DOMINATOR® Synthetic Racing Oil (RD20, RD30, RD50, RD60). When breaking in a rebuilt or high-performance engine, AMSOIL recommends AMSOIL Break-In Oil (BRK), which contains high levels of ZDDP for added wear protection.

I do my research because research is what I do. I ask questions because there is a lot I don't know.

Personally, why would you want to run an additive every time you change your oil..........I can see the break-in for sure, but once it's broke in you shouldn't need it. JMO

I do generator repair and service from air-cooled portables to liquid-cooled diesels and all we use is Kendall motor oils. We have used all other brands over the years and they are by far the better of them all. Their products hold up and they are one of the few oils that when you do a oil change, it comes out almost as clean as when it goes in, doesn't wreak of fuel, break down, etc.

From the Kendall web site: https://www.kendallmotoroil.com/product ... d-titanium

High ZDDP content for additional wear protection for engines with flat-tappet camshafts (SAE 20W-50)

I do admire what you know about these trucks sweptln, a lot, which is why I bothered with a lengthy post with sources, because I think you'll respect them. I value highly your desire to help. In that respect, we are very similar people. But please be careful before assuming that I am incautious about my queries. I have an ego too!

I stand corrected on the STP, did not know that...........thanks

Yes, maybe I should have chosen my words better, but I don't really agree with Amsoil's analogy on flat-tappet cam wear........yes break-in is critical with having zinc/ZDDP........but I disagree after break-in. I also see that Amsoil has specific oils with there ZDDP content and they seem to keep it a secret as to how much there content is, it's not across the full line. A lot of people swear by Amsoil, but I have used some of there products and was never a big fan of there prices and reluctantness to publish content numbers of there products...JMO
I won't mention the manufacturer here........because it's a air-cooled small-engine manufacturer, but they use a full-synthetic oil in all there engines after break-in, which they are shipped with from the factory. It's a flat-tappet design and they back it with a full 10 year warranty, so I really don't go along with the analogy, that a flat-tappet cam needs zinc/ZDDP after break-in. I'm also, not saying it's a bad thing to have zinc/ZDDP in the oil........just to be clear, to me, it's an added bonus.

Yes, Kendall is one of the few oil companies that still markets the racing industry, but they also use zinc/ZDDP in there non-high performance lines of synthetic blends, unlike a lot of others.

Like I mentioned and you noted, research, application and experience is key with this subject. Buyer beware, because there are a lot of claim to fame and snake oils out there.
Just as a point of interest with this subject, the best thing anyone can do is, look at the MSDS or SDS sheets for any product you are interested in and it gives the zinc/ZDDP content of the product and you can make a reasonable decision on what is best for you.

[Wildergarten]

....but I disagree after break-in.

Every one of my big-block trucks had motors built and broken in during the 1960s when there was plenty of ZDDP. Every one has less than 90K miles. Every one now has accelerated camshaft wear, particularly at the fuel pump push rod lobe and push rod end where shear forces are highest because of the angularity of the contact point. Hence, I'm going to be adding the ZDDP additives.

I also see that Amsoil has specific oils with there ZDDP content and they seem to keep it a secret as to how much there content is, it's not across the full line. A lot of people swear by Amsoil, but I have used some of there products and was never a big fan of there prices and reluctantness to publish content numbers of there products...JMO

While one is always well advised to do the homework, corporate dishonesty is not the only cause of what you see in the way of disclosure. What you might be seeing there is the heavy hand of the EPA.

Like I mentioned and you noted, research, application and experience is key with this subject. Buyer beware, because there are a lot of claim to fame and snake oils out there. Just as a point of interest with this subject, the best thing anyone can do is, look at the MSDS or SDS sheets for any product you are interested in and it gives the zinc/ZDDP content of the product and you can make a reasonable decision on what is best for you.

I was an R&D project managing engineer in the chemical manufacturing business (vinyl plastisols). I also am a user of at least six different herbicides and as many adjuvants. I've never seen formulary concentrations on an MSDS; with the herbicides, it's on the label.

[swptln]

The SDS sheets won't always have the actual amounts of the ingredients, but they're supposed to have the chemicals listed. I have found the deception is in the product data sheets and not the SDS, some will publish their % concentrate, others don't. Which to me is false advertising, if your going to market a product with ZDDP.......it shouldn't be a secret as to how much their putting in it. I was even looking at STP and they also have stopped publishing there % concentrate (2007 is the latest) and their SDS list's nothing as well. I feel this way, if your not going to publish data on your product.............it's not worth buying. JMO All I would say is "Buyer Beware" on all these new oil products and additives today.

[Wildergarten]

The SDS sheets won't always have the actual amounts of the ingredients, but they're supposed to have the chemicals listed. I have found the deception is in the product data sheets and not the SDS, some will publish their % concentrate, others don't. Which to me is false advertising, if your going to market a product with ZDDP.......it shouldn't be a secret as to how much their putting in it. I was even looking at STP and they also have stopped publishing there % concentrate (2007 is the latest) and their SDS list's nothing as well. I feel this way, if your not going to publish data on your product.............it's not worth buying. JMO All I would say is "Buyer Beware" on all these new oil products and additives today.

While I too prefer to read the label before buying products, I'll happily pay for the risk the seller is taking in informing me or for an insured third party to validate claims. But in your world, a chemist MUST work for years expending time and materials in research and development, invest rather significant sums of cash building a plant, and then divulge the resulting discoveries to competitors before being allowed to make a dime?

No thanks, I'm not into compelled speech. If a company doesn't want to advertise its product contents, we're all free not to buy the product. The company can of course defraud the public, label or not, but for them we should have nice tiny rooms, rather heavy jewelry, and rather odious and menial tasks to perform. Then there are the rapacious lawyers lurking in wait. In a world in which insured third parties offering validation services are available to solve that disclosure problem, there is little real need for such compulsion, especially when the vendor has no control of whether their product is used as prescribed.